the dawn of the gamers Posted: 12:07 Jan22 2012
Post ID: 3088103
the dawn of the gamers
Posts: 395
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Okay, I'm trying out what Sphynxx suggested. Hopefully it won't get too confusing.
dx_hbk said:
No, You didn't get the point. The "scientific method" originally started with ibn al-haytham and other Arab scientists. The ancient Greeks who were influenced by Plato and Aristotle were more of philosophers then scientist. They were not found of observations and experimentation.
The essence of the scientific method from Ibn al- Haytham to Francis Bacon to now is the same. Though theories change, but like I sad before that does not mean every theory is wrong because science tends to look at everything in a sceptically way and doesn?t claim to have absolute truths. We are sure that the earth orbit?s the sun not the other way around and we are sure that it won?t be proved wrong anytime soon.
So you can can't assume just because theories change, everything that we know can be completely different at a later time.
I never once said -or even suggested- that everything we know can be proven to be wrong at a later date. I said that everything we don't know could one day be proven. You don't and can't know that ghosts don't exist because no-one can or does. It's currently just a matter of opinion.
dx_hbk said:
If you look at reality that way then anything can be true. You are committing a popular logical fallacy here known as Argumentum ad ignorantam ( argument from ignorance)
Again, you are pushing forward absurd assertions. Bertrand Russell argued with such reasoning using an analogy of a celestial teapot. He claimed there was a china teapot orbiting between earth and mars. Now when Astronomers scanned the area they didn't fine the teapot and Russell then claimed that the teapot was so small, that it couldn't be even seen under our largest telescopes. That last point made the argument inconsistent in his eyes, because it is an absurd assertion after an other abuse red assertion with out any proof. Unless you provide proof for your claims they won't be taken seriously.
I was mostly using the aliens and the unicorns as an analogy. I don't actually believe in such absurd notions, but that's beside the point.
The difference between Bertrand Russell and myself, is that I'm willing to accept it when I am proven wrong. Which has yet to occur.
the dawn of the gamers said:
Don't rule something out simply because you have not yet found evidence of it.
dx_hbk said:
"Remarkable claims require remarkable proof" ~ Carl Sagan
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." ~ Christopher Hitchens
"...the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Donald Rumsfeld.
I'll also quote Carl Sagan, because remarkably enough, he changed his opinions at one point in his life.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence!" - Carl Sagan
I can provide reference if you desire.
Edited because of errors in my bbcode.
« Last edited by the dawn of the gamers on Jan 22nd 2012 »
dx_hbk said:
No, You didn't get the point. The "scientific method" originally started with ibn al-haytham and other Arab scientists. The ancient Greeks who were influenced by Plato and Aristotle were more of philosophers then scientist. They were not found of observations and experimentation.
The essence of the scientific method from Ibn al- Haytham to Francis Bacon to now is the same. Though theories change, but like I sad before that does not mean every theory is wrong because science tends to look at everything in a sceptically way and doesn?t claim to have absolute truths. We are sure that the earth orbit?s the sun not the other way around and we are sure that it won?t be proved wrong anytime soon.
So you can can't assume just because theories change, everything that we know can be completely different at a later time.
I never once said -or even suggested- that everything we know can be proven to be wrong at a later date. I said that everything we don't know could one day be proven. You don't and can't know that ghosts don't exist because no-one can or does. It's currently just a matter of opinion.
dx_hbk said:
If you look at reality that way then anything can be true. You are committing a popular logical fallacy here known as Argumentum ad ignorantam ( argument from ignorance)
Again, you are pushing forward absurd assertions. Bertrand Russell argued with such reasoning using an analogy of a celestial teapot. He claimed there was a china teapot orbiting between earth and mars. Now when Astronomers scanned the area they didn't fine the teapot and Russell then claimed that the teapot was so small, that it couldn't be even seen under our largest telescopes. That last point made the argument inconsistent in his eyes, because it is an absurd assertion after an other abuse red assertion with out any proof. Unless you provide proof for your claims they won't be taken seriously.
I was mostly using the aliens and the unicorns as an analogy. I don't actually believe in such absurd notions, but that's beside the point.
The difference between Bertrand Russell and myself, is that I'm willing to accept it when I am proven wrong. Which has yet to occur.
the dawn of the gamers said:
Don't rule something out simply because you have not yet found evidence of it.
dx_hbk said:
"Remarkable claims require remarkable proof" ~ Carl Sagan
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." ~ Christopher Hitchens
"...the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Donald Rumsfeld.
I'll also quote Carl Sagan, because remarkably enough, he changed his opinions at one point in his life.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence!" - Carl Sagan
I can provide reference if you desire.
Edited because of errors in my bbcode.
« Last edited by the dawn of the gamers on Jan 22nd 2012 »
There are many powerful people in this world. Few of them are responsible.
dx_hbk Posted: 08:29 Feb14 2012
Post ID: 3093929
dx_hbk
Skeptic
Posts: 8,991
Post Likes: 6
Post Likes: 6
I almost forget about this topic. I have been busy lately however, I will try to make a reply today. Hope fully The whole quote problem isn't there anymore.
^ That guy is GOD
"Lost somewhere between immensity and eternity is our tiny planetary home." ~ Carl Sagan
the dawn of the gamers Posted: 13:00 Feb14 2012
Post ID: 3094015
the dawn of the gamers
Posts: 395
Post Likes: 0
Post Likes: 0
I will be looking forward to the reply, I almost thought everyone had forgotten :P.
There are many powerful people in this world. Few of them are responsible.
M.J Posted: 06:48 Jun20 2012
Post ID: 3121760
M.J
Posts: 183
Post Likes: 3
Post Likes: 3
I find this topic very interesting... I hope you keep them coming!
"Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you."
sphynxx Posted: 07:09 Jun20 2012
Post ID: 3121766
sphynxx
.:I Am What You Fear Most:.
Posts: 11,722
Post Likes: 102
Post Likes: 102
How about you post in it, with something of structure and that can carry on further discussion, rather than make a pointless post. This is the Debate & Discussion thread after all. 
<3 to Craizen for the Avatar & TheLlama for the Signature.
"Forever in this heart of mine, an everlasting bond. From now until the end of time, are memories so fond."
M.J Posted: 08:31 Jun20 2012
Post ID: 3121775
M.J
Posts: 183
Post Likes: 3
Post Likes: 3
Sorry...
Anyway I have to agree with dx_hbk but I'm not going say it's impossible for ghosts to exist since there is no actual proof that they do or don't exist.
The mind has a tendency to conjure up what we want to see rather than what's really there, especially when fear is involved.
Drinking, drowsiness and dizziness does not have to be involved but can certainly increase the chances of seeing something that does not exist.
As for two people experiencing something they believe to be "super natural" they could be experiencing the same side effects but as for a group of people it's most likely a different matter.
I've gone to the bathroom plenty of times before and I always make sure everything is shut off before hand but a few times I have came out to find the kitchen light on, the fan on high as well as the chairs in the livingroom reclined. Let me make note that I was home alone. Could it of been a spirit? Maybe. Could it of been me drowsy and not realized that I had left those things on? Possibly, but I cannot say for sure.
When my brother's girlfriend was living with us, she had started recording in her bedroom during nights my brother worked. The first night we seen quite of activity (This was the next morning when we watched the recordings, both on the camera itself as well as the TV). She had on her night light and we noticed a black figure kept pacing back and forth in the hallway and it would constantly stop by her door every couple of minutes before going back to it's pacing. After about ten minutes the camera began to get blurry for a few seconds as if it couldn't focus. Then things got quiet for about an hour until the fan suddenly shut off but the radio continued to play quietly in the background. It then decided to life the mattress partly up before letting it fall back down like it was looking for something. Things remained quiet the rest of that night. As for the other nights she recorded there was only minor activity but the weird thing was whatever it was would only appear when she was alone.
We deleted the recordings but when I get the chance I will do some recording myself to see if anything happens and post it on here... Maybe not as proof but hopefully answer some questions or spring up new possibilities.
Anyway I have to agree with dx_hbk but I'm not going say it's impossible for ghosts to exist since there is no actual proof that they do or don't exist.
The mind has a tendency to conjure up what we want to see rather than what's really there, especially when fear is involved.
Drinking, drowsiness and dizziness does not have to be involved but can certainly increase the chances of seeing something that does not exist.
As for two people experiencing something they believe to be "super natural" they could be experiencing the same side effects but as for a group of people it's most likely a different matter.
I've gone to the bathroom plenty of times before and I always make sure everything is shut off before hand but a few times I have came out to find the kitchen light on, the fan on high as well as the chairs in the livingroom reclined. Let me make note that I was home alone. Could it of been a spirit? Maybe. Could it of been me drowsy and not realized that I had left those things on? Possibly, but I cannot say for sure.
When my brother's girlfriend was living with us, she had started recording in her bedroom during nights my brother worked. The first night we seen quite of activity (This was the next morning when we watched the recordings, both on the camera itself as well as the TV). She had on her night light and we noticed a black figure kept pacing back and forth in the hallway and it would constantly stop by her door every couple of minutes before going back to it's pacing. After about ten minutes the camera began to get blurry for a few seconds as if it couldn't focus. Then things got quiet for about an hour until the fan suddenly shut off but the radio continued to play quietly in the background. It then decided to life the mattress partly up before letting it fall back down like it was looking for something. Things remained quiet the rest of that night. As for the other nights she recorded there was only minor activity but the weird thing was whatever it was would only appear when she was alone.
We deleted the recordings but when I get the chance I will do some recording myself to see if anything happens and post it on here... Maybe not as proof but hopefully answer some questions or spring up new possibilities.
"Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you."
CRAZY CHEATS Posted: 20:25 Jul05 2012
Post ID: 3126948
CRAZY CHEATS
Das Milkinator
Posts: 3,748
Post Likes: 1
Post Likes: 1
I'm sorry, but as soon as I saw "We deleted the recordings", my already waning belief in you left completely.
Tell me, why would you delete something like that?
Tell me, why would you delete something like that?
nightmare2 Posted: 14:16 Jul06 2012
Post ID: 3127123
nightmare2
Lord of Nightmares
Posts: 3,482
Post Likes: 41
Post Likes: 41
Found that odd too but then again there really isn't much use for such recordings. Besides showing it to friends out of interest not much you can do.
Lucky for us fear tends to be a better factor in making someone see something rather than being drunk or drowsy, like you said M.J the mind tends to make things up based on what people want to see. Generally when a person is alone their fear heightens and makes such possibilities rise, added that they are a little tired, drunk, or dizzy chances are pretty high they might see something out of he ordinary that isn't really there. However I disagree slightly as for it being different for a group, fear still plays the largest role. Unfortunately groups tend to feel the same emotions, people do follow the group, so if a few people in the group are afraid it will spread.
Me I have never seen anything out of the ordinary so I really don't believe in ghosts but I am not entirely against the idea that they could be real. But all in all I doubt they exist either fear, being drunk, dizzy, or drowsy is making you see or image them and in some cases it is just someone else trying to trick or scare you. And unfortunately with technology that allows people to edit videos and pictures I doubt I will ever get the proof to it be proven to me.
Lucky for us fear tends to be a better factor in making someone see something rather than being drunk or drowsy, like you said M.J the mind tends to make things up based on what people want to see. Generally when a person is alone their fear heightens and makes such possibilities rise, added that they are a little tired, drunk, or dizzy chances are pretty high they might see something out of he ordinary that isn't really there. However I disagree slightly as for it being different for a group, fear still plays the largest role. Unfortunately groups tend to feel the same emotions, people do follow the group, so if a few people in the group are afraid it will spread.
Me I have never seen anything out of the ordinary so I really don't believe in ghosts but I am not entirely against the idea that they could be real. But all in all I doubt they exist either fear, being drunk, dizzy, or drowsy is making you see or image them and in some cases it is just someone else trying to trick or scare you. And unfortunately with technology that allows people to edit videos and pictures I doubt I will ever get the proof to it be proven to me.
Sir Adam of Peridot Nightmares
Go visit the Fan Fiction and Role Playing Forum and check out what is there maybe you will see something of interest and feel free to stay and have a cup of -insert beverage of choice here- and some cookies. It's on the house! Well it would be if I had a house...
Go visit the Fan Fiction and Role Playing Forum and check out what is there maybe you will see something of interest and feel free to stay and have a cup of -insert beverage of choice here- and some cookies. It's on the house! Well it would be if I had a house...
fendergrl Posted: 18:19 May24 2015
Post ID: 3379237
fendergrl
Posts: 1
Post Likes: 0
Post Likes: 0
Ghosts are real! When I moved to the United States from Puerto Rico as a child, my mom rented a house for a really cheap price. Being a single mother working a minimum wage job, this was a really good deal that she couldn't pass up.
The house was a two family home. Downstairs lived a couple, and the upstairs was ours. We had a nice size apartment and a HUGE attic with two ENOURMOUS rooms, two walk-in closets that you can crawl into the walls and it would completely surround the entire attic. The building and structure of the house was very dated.
When we first moved in, something in the attic(my room) caught my eye. I noticed that one of the closets had a really big picture of a virgin Mary tightly nailed to the wall. When I asked my mother about it, she had told me that the home owner had told her not to remove the picture from the closet. My mom thought nothing about it- so I moved on and thought nothing of it either.
The attic was big and perfect for a child. I immediately claimed it as my room-- it looked like a perfect play area for a child.
However, It was the middle of the summer, during the hottest days of the season, and the attic was freezing cold. We had no air conditioning, but the attic felt like it was the middle of winter. I literarily shivered when I was up there and crossed my arms attempting to warm myself up.
The more time I spent up there, the more I didn't want to be up there. Something felt odd. Almost as if I was invading someone's space. I never felt like it was "My" room-- always had an eerie feeling like I wasn't welcomed in that room. I always found myself looking over my shoulder feeling like someone was behind me. I always felt like I was being stared at. I told my mom I didn't want to sleep up there-- it didn't feel right. I only went up there to get my clothes or something that I needed. One day, I went to get my PJ's so I can shower, and when I left the room, the door slammed shut behind me with such force, that it created a wave of wind that was strong enough to completely move my hair like if I was outside on a windy fall day.
I was so scared to be up there, that I started to wear the same clothes everyday in order to avoid having to go up to my room. My mom thought I was being a normal 11 year old and just laughed it off.
Being an 11 year old kid, I had MANY toys. I was flooded with toys that I took care of and kept very neat and organized in shelves. Sometimes, I would randomly lose my toys, and suddenly find it at very random spots (under my bed, under the dressed, etc...)I remember one of my cousins had came over the house and my mom suggested that I went up to my room to play with her-- so we did. We sat in the middle of the room playing with barbies, laughing, having a good time, being happy little girls playing. After playing for about 15 minutes, suddenly, something knocked very loudly on the closet door where the virgin Mary was hanging. Me and my cousin looked at each other speechless- right after the knocking, the door of the room slammed shut, just like that- right in front of us. Again, there was a cold wind that followed that blew the hairs on our heads. We dropped the dolls, and I went straight for the door so we can go downstairs. However, I couldn't open the door for a good 30 seconds. As if something was holding us inside. When I finally was able to open the door, we ran so fast downstairs to our moms-- and we could hear the door slam shut behind us as we ran out.
We left everything exactly as we left it. I didn't go back upstairs for the rest of the day and I slept downstairs with my mom every day. One day, I had to go up to the attic to grab clothes. Kids at school started to make fun of me for wearing the same clothes every day, so I decided I was going to suck it up and go upstairs to grab all my clothes once and for all.
I went upstairs, feeling very scared. When I got to the door, it was closed. I went to turn the knob, and it was locked! I am pretty sure no one had been up there since the day that me and my cousin ran out. The door was locked, someone locked it and I couldn't explain it.
I went back downstairs and grabbed a knife so I can open the door. I was able to open the door, but as I swung the door about a quarter way open, something pushed the door trying to close it. I found myself pushing with both of my hands, as hard as I could to get the door open-- and it felt like on the other side, there was another pair of hands pushing back. This pushing battle went on for about a minute-- until "it" gave up. I knew "it" gave up because the door slammed completely open and there was a wind that rushed to the other side of the room, as if someone had just walked away angry. It just felt like the hands on the other side suddenly stopped pushing. It didn't want me in there-- that's when I felt it more than ever.
One night, my cousin had slept over. We slept downstairs in my mom's room floor in sleeping bags. My mom's room is located right underneath the attic room, I woke up in the middle of the night to loud stomping that came from the upstairs. It wasn't wood screaking, I knew it wasn't. It was loud, clear foot steps walking back and forth. I woke my mom up so she can hear it, her response was "that's your cousin. Shes probably upstairs playing."... and I looked next to me, and my cousin was sleeping soundly in her sleeping bag.
That's when I knew that I wasn't going crazy. Something was up there. And for the first time, my mother felt scared... We literarily moved out days later. My mom didn't even go back to pick up her security deposit-- that's how scared we were.
In conclusion, I believe in ghosts. I believe they get attached to certain places and things and they continue to haunt what is familiar to them. I don't know what was up there-- a child, a man, a women. However, whatever it was, it wasn't very strong. During the "door pushing battle", the hands on the other side felt light and had no more strength than I had as a very skinny 11 year old girl. I also know it wasn't a man because the foot steps weren't heavy footsteps. The stomping felt like it was caused by a light human. I wish I knew what happened up there. I tried searching for the history of the house, but have gotten nothing... I hope to find out someday.
The house was a two family home. Downstairs lived a couple, and the upstairs was ours. We had a nice size apartment and a HUGE attic with two ENOURMOUS rooms, two walk-in closets that you can crawl into the walls and it would completely surround the entire attic. The building and structure of the house was very dated.
When we first moved in, something in the attic(my room) caught my eye. I noticed that one of the closets had a really big picture of a virgin Mary tightly nailed to the wall. When I asked my mother about it, she had told me that the home owner had told her not to remove the picture from the closet. My mom thought nothing about it- so I moved on and thought nothing of it either.
The attic was big and perfect for a child. I immediately claimed it as my room-- it looked like a perfect play area for a child.
However, It was the middle of the summer, during the hottest days of the season, and the attic was freezing cold. We had no air conditioning, but the attic felt like it was the middle of winter. I literarily shivered when I was up there and crossed my arms attempting to warm myself up.
The more time I spent up there, the more I didn't want to be up there. Something felt odd. Almost as if I was invading someone's space. I never felt like it was "My" room-- always had an eerie feeling like I wasn't welcomed in that room. I always found myself looking over my shoulder feeling like someone was behind me. I always felt like I was being stared at. I told my mom I didn't want to sleep up there-- it didn't feel right. I only went up there to get my clothes or something that I needed. One day, I went to get my PJ's so I can shower, and when I left the room, the door slammed shut behind me with such force, that it created a wave of wind that was strong enough to completely move my hair like if I was outside on a windy fall day.
I was so scared to be up there, that I started to wear the same clothes everyday in order to avoid having to go up to my room. My mom thought I was being a normal 11 year old and just laughed it off.
Being an 11 year old kid, I had MANY toys. I was flooded with toys that I took care of and kept very neat and organized in shelves. Sometimes, I would randomly lose my toys, and suddenly find it at very random spots (under my bed, under the dressed, etc...)I remember one of my cousins had came over the house and my mom suggested that I went up to my room to play with her-- so we did. We sat in the middle of the room playing with barbies, laughing, having a good time, being happy little girls playing. After playing for about 15 minutes, suddenly, something knocked very loudly on the closet door where the virgin Mary was hanging. Me and my cousin looked at each other speechless- right after the knocking, the door of the room slammed shut, just like that- right in front of us. Again, there was a cold wind that followed that blew the hairs on our heads. We dropped the dolls, and I went straight for the door so we can go downstairs. However, I couldn't open the door for a good 30 seconds. As if something was holding us inside. When I finally was able to open the door, we ran so fast downstairs to our moms-- and we could hear the door slam shut behind us as we ran out.
We left everything exactly as we left it. I didn't go back upstairs for the rest of the day and I slept downstairs with my mom every day. One day, I had to go up to the attic to grab clothes. Kids at school started to make fun of me for wearing the same clothes every day, so I decided I was going to suck it up and go upstairs to grab all my clothes once and for all.
I went upstairs, feeling very scared. When I got to the door, it was closed. I went to turn the knob, and it was locked! I am pretty sure no one had been up there since the day that me and my cousin ran out. The door was locked, someone locked it and I couldn't explain it.
I went back downstairs and grabbed a knife so I can open the door. I was able to open the door, but as I swung the door about a quarter way open, something pushed the door trying to close it. I found myself pushing with both of my hands, as hard as I could to get the door open-- and it felt like on the other side, there was another pair of hands pushing back. This pushing battle went on for about a minute-- until "it" gave up. I knew "it" gave up because the door slammed completely open and there was a wind that rushed to the other side of the room, as if someone had just walked away angry. It just felt like the hands on the other side suddenly stopped pushing. It didn't want me in there-- that's when I felt it more than ever.
One night, my cousin had slept over. We slept downstairs in my mom's room floor in sleeping bags. My mom's room is located right underneath the attic room, I woke up in the middle of the night to loud stomping that came from the upstairs. It wasn't wood screaking, I knew it wasn't. It was loud, clear foot steps walking back and forth. I woke my mom up so she can hear it, her response was "that's your cousin. Shes probably upstairs playing."... and I looked next to me, and my cousin was sleeping soundly in her sleeping bag.
That's when I knew that I wasn't going crazy. Something was up there. And for the first time, my mother felt scared... We literarily moved out days later. My mom didn't even go back to pick up her security deposit-- that's how scared we were.
In conclusion, I believe in ghosts. I believe they get attached to certain places and things and they continue to haunt what is familiar to them. I don't know what was up there-- a child, a man, a women. However, whatever it was, it wasn't very strong. During the "door pushing battle", the hands on the other side felt light and had no more strength than I had as a very skinny 11 year old girl. I also know it wasn't a man because the foot steps weren't heavy footsteps. The stomping felt like it was caused by a light human. I wish I knew what happened up there. I tried searching for the history of the house, but have gotten nothing... I hope to find out someday.
Warrior13 Posted: 17:07 May25 2015
Post ID: 3379303
Warrior13
Jimo Dashen
Posts: 29,440
Post Likes: 1,056
Post Likes: 1,056
R-E-J-E-C-T-E-D!!!
KingofCorn Posted: 01:58 May26 2015
Post ID: 3379345
KingofCorn
Avoid the Noid.
Posts: 16,679
Post Likes: 615
Post Likes: 615
A word you know well.
Warrior13 Posted: 12:25 May26 2015
Post ID: 3379376
Warrior13
Jimo Dashen
Posts: 29,440
Post Likes: 1,056
Post Likes: 1,056
Did you hear that?
KingofCorn Posted: 01:18 May27 2015
Post ID: 3379417
KingofCorn
Avoid the Noid.
Posts: 16,679
Post Likes: 615
Post Likes: 615
Only when I apply for loans!
Warrior13 Posted: 13:19 May27 2015
Post ID: 3379449
Warrior13
Jimo Dashen
Posts: 29,440
Post Likes: 1,056
Post Likes: 1,056
No... I was talking about that sound the resembled a heart breaking... Perhaps mine... ;_;
KingofCorn Posted: 21:30 May27 2015
Post ID: 3379476
KingofCorn
Avoid the Noid.
Posts: 16,679
Post Likes: 615
Post Likes: 615
Always look on the bright side!
Warrior13 Posted: 08:35 May28 2015
Post ID: 3379512
Warrior13
Jimo Dashen
Posts: 29,440
Post Likes: 1,056
Post Likes: 1,056
Party smileys!!! 
KingofCorn Posted: 11:45 May28 2015
Post ID: 3379530
KingofCorn
Avoid the Noid.
Posts: 16,679
Post Likes: 615
Post Likes: 615
Spam!
Warrior13 Posted: 14:15 May28 2015
Post ID: 3379545
Warrior13
Jimo Dashen
Posts: 29,440
Post Likes: 1,056
Post Likes: 1,056
Not-uh!!! Three smiley limit. :P
KingofCorn Posted: 19:35 May28 2015
Post ID: 3379562
KingofCorn
Avoid the Noid.
Posts: 16,679
Post Likes: 615
Post Likes: 615
Whatever
Warrior13 Posted: 22:39 May28 2015
Post ID: 3379579
Warrior13
Jimo Dashen
Posts: 29,440
Post Likes: 1,056
Post Likes: 1,056
Truthful.
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