Grip racers

yeah thats why its my main grip car, Carrera GT as backup.

On 08-Jun-2008 Murcielago said:

oh and kenny you should rethink your "car expert" status because that FWD bit is the silliest bit of crap I've read! One of the oldest facts in the car handbook is that while extremely stable, FWD cars are pretty much only useful on the road. They have the greatest amount of natural understeer of ANY drive type and they wear the front tyres quicker because everything happens on them.

Oh and fish, you think exotics can't be improved? Observe:

http://www.rsportscars.com/ferrari/2006-ferrari-hamann-f430-spider/
http://www.rsportscars.com/lamborghini/2007-lamborghini-murcielago-by-bf-performance/

You do realise car companies are told for safety reasons to set up their road cars (suspension and tyres) to understeer -_-.
If however this wasn't the case FWD would be owning every other car type in terms of managing to get the nose pointing in the direction they want to. -_-
In addition to this: due to the front getting most of the grip because that's where the drive is, losing the rear end is relatively easy for drivers.

In addition about the tyre wear. It's the same case with rear wheel drive cars except for at the rear -_- Duh.

So what if they do? FWD would not be owning every other drive type if that wasn't the case, for example take the most powerful production FWD, the Mazda3 MPS. That can't even go in a straight line without torque steering to the left, and that has barely over 250 hp!!!

"Predictable handling characteristics: front-wheel drive cars, with a front weight bias, tend to understeer at the limit, which according to for instance SAAB engineer Gunnar Larsson is easier since it makes instinct correct in avoiding terminal oversteer, and less prone to result in fishtailing or a spin."

Oh and losing the rear end isn't easier because all the weight shifts TO the rear wheels under acceleration, therefore losing traction and limiting the maximum horsepower they can have.

Oh and it's not the same with tyre wear for RWD, because most RWD cars have an even weight distribution, with the obvious exception of RR, and so tyre wear is more even. Tyre wear is much more extreme on FWD, because EVERYTHING happens on the front wheels. As a race car, they aren't better than RWD. Sorry.

Did I say FWD would be owning every type of race? No.
Yeah that's SAAB cars...Try the Volkswagon. Top of the list for handling for FWD cars and general performance.
That's acceleration from a still position. I was talking about cornering where the squat i.e. the weight being shifted backwards is a lot less.

For RWD: they can actually be shreading away at either the front tyres or rear tyres or even both depending on various other characteristics whereas for FWD it's pretty much the same for all of them.
RWD can be shredding the fronts because of it understeering or the ridiculous camber using or vice versa for the rear.
Of course when it comes to all the tyres that's because the suspension is demanding too much mechanical grip.

May I remind you that this is a RACING game that we're talking about, and I didn't say that they'd be owning every type of race either. Oh, and what if you accelerate hard coming out of a corner? Equals going out wide, which then equals going off track. RWDs don't exactly have natural understeer. You think manufacturers purposely make suspension and tyres to make their cars understeer? Obviously that reduces the risk of a big crash but if you're not going fast it won't happen anyway! That's what ESP is for! To stabilise the car in extreme circumstances! You can't tell me, that you have seen a Chrysler 300C SRT8 at a track NOT eat up the rears by wheelspinning, or NOT seen a professional slide out the back of it around a sweeping corner.

On 10-Jun-2008 Murcielago said:

May I remind you that this is a RACING game that we're talking about, and I didn't say that they'd be owning every type of race either. Oh, and what if you accelerate hard coming out of a corner? Equals going out wide, which then equals going off track. RWDs don't exactly have natural understeer. You think manufacturers purposely make suspension and tyres to make their cars understeer? Obviously that reduces the risk of a big crash but if you're not going fast it won't happen anyway! That's what ESP is for! To stabilise the car in extreme circumstances! You can't tell me, that you have seen a Chrysler 300C SRT8 at a track NOT eat up the rears by wheelspinning, or NOT seen a professional slide out the back of it around a sweeping corner.

Accelerating hard out of corner has the same repurcussions for every type of car. The level of this repurcussion depends on how much mechanical grip and aerodynamical grip you have along with the suspension and how it responds.
RWDs don't naturally understeer? Check the Toyota Supra in real life and other long wheelbased RWDs.
I don't think manufacturers purposely make the suspension and tyres understeer for the car. I know they do.

Every car will eat the tyres away -_-. It's just a question of how they shread away at it that then contributes to how quickly it shreads away.

Obviously no you don't know. I'll leave this alone with an interesting thought: If FWDs naturally oversteer, why aren't there any in D1GP, or any drifting tournament for that matter? Because THEY DON'T DRIFT. As a general rule RWDs don't naturally understeer.

This is a stupid and relatively pointless argument anyway, so lets end it there, shall we?

yeah, im getting bored of reading your long post about this and that....

now back onto topic, ummmmm....

what are the best grip tracks, i know there is 1 at the g-effect second raceday where its just a cricle so you can get so real high steads out of it

Ah the Texas World Speedway.
I also quite like Autopolis. It has a nice flow.

Sorry for this being a seriously off topic post but Fish Mans attention. Fish Man you are going to either have to give me credit for that Tag/Sig or take it off. It's not yours it's mine I made it. I dont mind you using it just give credit where credit is due. I'm pretty sure that's the second time You've used it when I've told you before not use it unless you give credit. Want proof I made it we can discuss this more in the Suggestions and problems forum there is a topic there about this so as to not spam this place up.

To contribute a bit, is the Infineon race way any good for grip?

It's not bad.
Generally quite slow corners with a couple of fast ones, but they are relatively easy to navigate.

On 12-Jun-2008 Lycanthrope said:

Sorry for this being a seriously off topic post but Fish Mans attention. Fish Man you are going to either have to give me credit for that Tag/Sig or take it off. It's not yours it's mine I made it. I dont mind you using it just give credit where credit is due. I'm pretty sure that's the second time You've used it when I've told you before not use it unless you give credit. Want proof I made it we can discuss this more in the Suggestions and problems forum there is a topic there about this so as to not spam this place up.

To contribute a bit, is the Infineon race way any good for grip?

ok thats weird, because one of my friends gave me it called it their own

well if it's yours then ill say sorry, "sorry". give you credit for it or change it

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ok im wondering here what is the best car for grip buy cost, power, handling

so far the only one i can think of is the evo, but im sure i have missed many so any ideas peoples

« Last edited by fish man on Jun 12th 2008 »

obvious choice here, 911 GT3 RS, mainly because it costs nothing lol.

well not at first, but yeah its a good grip car, along with the rest of the porsche range.

another one ive found is the delta evo intrega etc, its small fast and stable

The BMW M3 E46 isn't bad either. In fact it's quite a competitive car. Maybe not the most competitive grip car available for the game, but competitive enough to win practically all of the races.
It's got a perky engine, great grip and handling and looks great. What more could you ask for? lol

yeah, when i first started i use to use the civic or the cobalt and now when i reflect back on it, they arent that bad.

I started out using the Cobalt, and it served me well in the beginning. I actually like trying to when grip races with cars that you damn well know shouldn't be grip cars. I actually have a grip Charger of all things. Fast off the line, but pretty hard to maneuver on twist tracks (I use the hand brake alot to slide through turns). It adds to the difficulty of the game IMHO. But my fave car to use is the Lancer Evo for Grip racing, hands down. (I know, SOO unoriginal, lol.)

Well it's a popular car in games and for real so I'm not really surprised! lol

Which reminds me also of course that I must really try the Ford Mustang for Grip as well and I'm still doing some tweaks with the BMW M3 E46 right now.

mustang for grip, that sounds like a disaster waiting to happen, well if you remember what hammond said about the gt500, then you'll know what i mean.

Mustang GT isn't as bad as it seems, I used to have one on my first career and it was quite good.