The SSBM tier list

Top:
Sheik
Fox
Marth

Upper:
Peach
Falco
C. Falcon
Samus

High:
Jigglypuff
Dr. Mario
Ganondorf
Mario
Ice Climbers

Mid:
Luigi
Link
Roy
DK
Pikachu
Zelda

Low:
Ness
Young Link
Yoshi
Kirby
Mr. Game & Watch
Bowser

Bottom:
Mewtwo
Pichu

Discuss

tires don exits. >.>

Oh, and by the way, Skill>Tiers. We all know that a really good Bowser, Link, or Mewtwo can beat a poor Sheik, Fox, or Marth, so don't post that arguement.

That argument proves tiers, by the way. If it takes a really good Pichu to beat an "eh" Sheik, then that means Pichu IS inferior as a character. Just pointing it out in case anyone still wants to use that argument as though it actually disproves tiers.

On the topic, how big is the difference between the top and upper tier? peach and Samus both have extremely powerful abilities( float canceling and things like the bomb jump inf recovery).

For the most part, the tiers are quite close together, and since they can't factor in all individual character matchups some lower tier characters do well against certain higher tier characters. Pretty much everyone in this game has something of a fighting chance, but naturally as the gap between tiers is large, such as a Top Tier vs a Bottom Tier, the difference is higher. Between the neighboring tiers, though, the gap isn't too large at all. And I don't know how active this place is, but if you're interested in more about specific character matchups rather than just the overview that the tier list offers, you can check this site out: ritt.no-ip.com

tiers really dont take effect until you get 3 or 4 tier levels apart. I play mario and near top level, and I fight a top level fox and falco frequently. Whenever I lose, it isnt because the character is better, but because the player is better.

and go to the freewebs site worira posted <_<

so has better recovery: Peach or Samus?

this is a bit off topic, but i would like to know..

Peach, if knocked high enough can float above all competition but risks having long falling time. but if only knocked towards the side, it's easier for them to edge guard/hog

for Samus, well she's got the bombs, and the grapple beam. for bombs, someting like a boomerang could mess her up if she wasn't far enough/low enough for it not to hit.


so bah, which would be better?

could i post something a little less rehashed about tiers? i always get a little annoyed by hearing the same half-true stuff reiterated about the tier list.

first of all, this is an average of tier list votes cast by members of the Melee Back Room at Smashboards. While there were, in all likelihood, no *extremely* variant tier lists submitted (I can't say for sure, because I'm not in the Melee Back Room. But I can guarantee there were no Bowsers over Marth or anything like that), there is some variance in the placement of certain characters in the opinions of the more knowledgeable players.

So don't adhere to this specific tier list as if it were perfect...

Also, the tier list is only relevant at the highest level of play, and there are no clear-cut lines. Even in matchups that are considered counters (Marth beating Jigglypuff) or matchups that occur between characters of vastly different tiers (Sheik vs. Mr. Game and Watch), one can't necessarily assume the outcome of a matchup. It is very affected by not only the skill of the users, but the nuances of their playing styles. Apparently, RyokoYaksa is really good against Foxes with Peach, in a matchup that for most purposes is even. (don't hold me to that statement - that's only what i've heard and observed). So the tier list is much less relevant than it seems.

most of the votes submitted were pretty much only 1 tier level variations away from the list... except from umbreon mow, whose list was completely bogus...

it had some crap like mario in top tier... and...

lemme try to uneart that jewel, and post my vote.

edit: here ya go:

my vote:

::top::

fox
sheik
falco


::upper::

captain falcon
peach
marth


::high::

doctor mario
samus
ice climbers
jiggly
gannon
mario
luigi

::mid::

roy
donkey kong
pikachu
young link
link
zelda

::low::

yoshi
ness
kirby
bowser
mr. game and watch


::bottom::

pichu
mewtwo

I would make 2 changes now... roy for bottom of high, and samus for bottom of upper.

and umbreon's vote:

1.
Fox
Marth
Peach
Falco
Mario

2.
Falcon
Doc
Sheik
Link
Roy

3.
Yoshi
IC
Samux
Ness
Luigi

4.
Ganondorf
Kirby
Jigglypuff
DK
Zelda
Bowser


5.
Y. Link
Pichu
G&W
Pikachu

6.
Mewtwo

<___<

ender put Ness at the top of top tier for some reason... probably a joke but yeah <_<

You put DK above Zelda? wtf? And Falcon above Peach? I'm confuzzled

zelda isnt good, I'll be the first to admit it, being a zelda player.

zelda wins cause... well, she hax.

Seriously, she's such a weird character that its confusing to fight against. The hit box's on the f smash and toe are so... glitched.

The same thing happened with jigglypuff. Jigglypuff was one of those unique characters that nobody really knew how to fight against, but now, we know, and jigglypuff isnt the uber uber character we once thought... now she's just uber <_<

But yeah, Zelda is good, just not that good. But I hadn't realized where I had put her til now... I probably would have put her just beneath DK.

I just flat out believe falcon is better than peach, end of story.

oops (most removed double post ever?)

here, i may as well make this post useful...

first off, i'm not sure whether you have the authority to post mow's list, xiffers...i remember someone being scolded for suggesting that mbr result be made more public, so i'm not sure about this...

and here's my current tier list

top: marth, sheik, fox
almost top: peach, cf
upper: samus, falco, ganon, jiggs
high-mid: doc, mario, ic's, link
low-mid: dk, roy, luigi zelda, pikachu
low: ness, kirby, yoshi
almost bottom: g&w, bowser, young link
bottom: mewtwo, pichu

i think, with all this ordering within tiers, that a six-tier system is becoming insufficient for rankings...therefore i have eight, with improved precision. generally ordered within tiers, but not necessarily

I'd still like to say that, in perfect metagame, Fox > everyone.

Indeed.

would a perfect fox be able to beat a perfect marth? marth is very fast too, and has the range to make fox's infinites much less of a deal.

The truth is, a Fox who makes no mistakes makes him an unstoppable force. The only reason Marth > Fox right now is because Marth has an easier learning curve than Fox's, and not everyone plays every character perfectly. But Fox has the greater potential. In perfect game, I have no doubt he could crush everyone else.

is fox really that hard outside of infinites? for that matter, is marth really saturated of potential? i fail to see how fox played to perfection would, by necessity, defeat marth.

Like you said, infinites!!! A perfect fox could infinite anybody to 999 and end the infinite with pretty much any attack with knockback to finish the enemy. Marth has enough lag from most of his attacks for a fox to rush in and get a combo in, and a perfect one would start the infinite there. His speed and low lag time at perfection would basically destroy any lag at all from any character. Outside of infinites, it's also kind of hard to do the FF part of shffling with fox due to how fast he naturally falls coupled with the already short distance from the ground. There's some other things that just naturally come up when playing, but I can't think of them right now.

The shine. It comes out quicker than anything Marth has... Which means at a perfect level you are just abusing lag at a greater degree.