Silent Lucidity
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... why does it say there is a nothe rpost yet there isn't?
bah
bah
Mask-o-Sheik
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unfortunately, shine does not effectively come out instantly against a marth who spaces well, because fox still has to get inside his sword. and i don't remember fair, forward b or dtilt to be that laggy.
besides, a tipped fair, or anything that would cause fox to tech, would mean a grab, which would be just as much death to fox as an infinite would be to marth, in a perfect world, right?
besides, a tipped fair, or anything that would cause fox to tech, would mean a grab, which would be just as much death to fox as an infinite would be to marth, in a perfect world, right?
DDR: want to pass Paranoia Survivor ~ Religions are just cults with more members. -- The resident SSB:M Captain Falcon user. -- "Let's eat fast so we can eat again!" ~ Ash
Gea
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Just say both were playing perfectly. Fox has speed over Marth. All that happens is he waits for Marth to lag on one move. The infinites start.
Mask-o-Sheik
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well, all marth has to do is wait for fox to attack and then grab. anyway, i don't think this argument is going anywhere because we can't use supporting evidence as easily when dealing with absolutes. and only sith deal with absolutes.
DDR: want to pass Paranoia Survivor ~ Religions are just cults with more members. -- The resident SSB:M Captain Falcon user. -- "Let's eat fast so we can eat again!" ~ Ash
Gea
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I'll ignore the sith reference and agree to disagree.
Mask-o-Sheik
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anyway, what's your tier list?
DDR: want to pass Paranoia Survivor ~ Religions are just cults with more members. -- The resident SSB:M Captain Falcon user. -- "Let's eat fast so we can eat again!" ~ Ash
Gea
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Mine? <.<' I don't really keep one... I pretty much just look at it very generally of how it is now.
petrie911
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XiF, you mentioned that you would put Roy at the bottom of upper. Could you please explain why?
XIF
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Roy is vastly underrated due to Marth's sheer superiority over him. When you look at him as a seperate character, he stands above all of the mid to bottom tiers (with the possible exception of Luigi in my book.) He still has some amazing set ups and combo's, and the d tilt can sheild stab at almost anytime. Not only that, the D tilt can be used defensively, or as a combo starter. His aerial neutral is also as good as his forward aerial. Of course, he still doesnt have the tipper, and some of the combo ability that Marth has. But what he has right now is certainly better than other mid tiers, like Link, Pika, Zelda, etc...
Mask-o-Sheik
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hmm...i'd agree with roy being better than pika, and maybe zelda. i have a hard time considering him better than dk or link though...and by the way, are you still sticking with luigi at bottom of high? i'm puzzled as to how he can remain up there, with unpleasant matchups against practically everyone in top/upper.
DDR: want to pass Paranoia Survivor ~ Religions are just cults with more members. -- The resident SSB:M Captain Falcon user. -- "Let's eat fast so we can eat again!" ~ Ash
XIF
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What big problems does luigi have from the top to high tiers?
far as I know, he's pretty dead even with the high tiers, and on the fastfallers of the top and upper tiers... once you get up to mid percents he has some pretty sick combo's. He can combo roy to hell at 0%...
far as I know, he's pretty dead even with the high tiers, and on the fastfallers of the top and upper tiers... once you get up to mid percents he has some pretty sick combo's. He can combo roy to hell at 0%...
TobiasXelKythe
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*will be back with a response sometime. >.>*
LUIGI'S GAME IS STEPPING UP [ www.freewebs.com/tobiasxk/LuigiFAQ.txt ]
Gea
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XoD <.< Whats with the lack of combos on me Tobias?
Mask-o-Sheik
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i didn't say luigi lost to the high tier....and roy and the mids don't really matter - falcon has his share of bad matches against mid tiers like pika and link but is upper just because he can hang in there against anybody but the space animals. luigi doesn't have that luck, though. he just dies in general to sheik, gets juggled forever by marth, can't break fox/falco's approach, and (i'm guessing) probably loses to peach, ganon and samus as well. luigi may stand a pretty good chance against falcon, but that's not enough, imo, to keep him in high. i mean, the *other* mid tiers can beat falcon, but they're not being promoted.
i'd put link in high sooner than i'd put luigi
i'd put link in high sooner than i'd put luigi
DDR: want to pass Paranoia Survivor ~ Religions are just cults with more members. -- The resident SSB:M Captain Falcon user. -- "Let's eat fast so we can eat again!" ~ Ash
Rebel581
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Roy should stay as mid or go down. He has hardly any good matchups. But I don't know enough about Zelda or Pikachu to know about them. Roy is a good character by himself, but has nothing over other characters. He has enough to get by. So that's why mid tier just seems right for him. Possibly lower. Not upper or high though and he is looked down upon because of Marth but his tier placement isn't. I haven't heard of a single serious Roy player questioning his placement on the tier list.
Mask-o-Sheik
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meh. i think roy belongs in middle tier...although i don't think he really gets screwed by anyone, does he? he has decent matchups against marth and the space animals, from what i see...
DDR: want to pass Paranoia Survivor ~ Religions are just cults with more members. -- The resident SSB:M Captain Falcon user. -- "Let's eat fast so we can eat again!" ~ Ash
Rebel581
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Well he has decent versus them (maybe even Falco, but let's not go too far).
But he has bad matches versus:
Sheik
Falco (possibly)
Peach
Samus
Jigglypuff (despite reverse blazer, jiggs has the advantage)
Luigi
Link
Ice Climbers (or maybe that's just me)
Yoshi
Donkey Kong
Young Link
Ones I have no experience against (no opinion formed):
Pikachu
Zelda
Kirby
Game & Watch
Bowser
Pichu
Wow, that's better than I thought. Still pretty pathetic since the rest are even matches.
But he has bad matches versus:
Sheik
Falco (possibly)
Peach
Samus
Jigglypuff (despite reverse blazer, jiggs has the advantage)
Luigi
Link
Ice Climbers (or maybe that's just me)
Yoshi
Donkey Kong
Young Link
Ones I have no experience against (no opinion formed):
Pikachu
Zelda
Kirby
Game & Watch
Bowser
Pichu
Wow, that's better than I thought. Still pretty pathetic since the rest are even matches.
DaRkNeSsOfHeArT
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Zelda beats Roy, but not by much. Mostly because she rapes his recovery and gets quick kills with hex/kick. Plus, he can't keep her away like Marth can (for some reason), and he's easy to combo. She just has to watch out for that fsmash at 90% or above and she'll be golden.
XIF
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I would agree with DoH with that match up. F tilt/u smash/u throw ownz the fast fallers
Rebel581
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See? Add one to the counter list for Roy. Roy can just do well against several of the most popular characters. That's it.
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