School, Where do you draw the line?

shmiddle said:

Some people don't review before they join, and I don't think that is wise.

Sorry if it seems like I'm ignoring your whole post for one point, but eh, this was the only one I felt I could pick up on.

The problem with Facebook groups and particularly the reasons schools take exception to them is that people comment on them with particular things that the school feels are "inappropriate" in some way. Regardless of whether or not the school has the right to police what the students say in an online community outside the premises, the point is that such content is dynamic and changing. There may be nothing truly objectionable up when you join a group but if after joining people post a load of "Teacher X must die!" posts and the school holds everyone accountable, then you're in trouble for a group that you'd perhaps even forgotten about completely.

The other problem of course is that the sheer volume of posts on some such groups is so immense that people really can't be bothered trawling back through it all in case there's something offensive there, whereas the school might be prepared to do such things and find one vicious comment below fifty innocuous ones. So... even if you feel the school has the right to police the online activity of their students in an attempt to prevent bullying, to tar all the students who may have signed up for a group with the same brush purely because the assumption was made that they reviewed all the content posted on that group and tacitly approved it by joining is... a little extreme, in my opinion.

I was referring to previous discussions about school policies and the level of accountability that schools place on parents and students - at least in my locale - to review them to avoid potential disciplinary actions.

I agree with you that it is impossible to read every jot and tittle of a facebook page due to high traffic. However, I am also aware that if a page's info and title stress that the focus of their group is to single someone out - faculty or student - it may place any student who joins in jeopardy of disciplinary action based on the school/school district guidelines. Do I think it's fair? I probably would if my daughter was singled out or if people were making threats that would cause physical harm to other students or faculty. Punishing all students who join a page for posts made by students on a "If you're a student of .... school" that are objectionable is ridiculous. The only people who have control over content are the individuals who post (their own posts - not posts made by others) and those who manage the page.

Whether you agree with my statements or not, I hope I explained myself clearly.

I heard about this in the news. Someone put threats up about a teacher and they got in big trouble for it.

Schools do this everytime something becomes popular for the age level they have. For instance when one of my friend's older brothers got a cell phone there were no rules about it because he was one of the only ones in the school with one. But once teachers noticed that more and more students had them they put in rules. Some were obvious things that were reasonable but others weren't. Like if during dismissal, when you could have cell phones out, a teacher caught a student on their cell phone with a text recieved from someone else that contained a bad word in it they were given a detention. Which isn't fair because they didn't send the text. If it was from them then it would be.

Now that facebook has become extremely popular among alot of age groups schools are making rules to keep control and find ways to stay in control. The firewall that is up on the school's interent blocks students from accessing facebook, which, I think is reasonable. Only amdministrators can access it. So I find it entirely unfair that if an administrator accesses facebook and finds something posted about another person in the school that ISN'T a threat that the school then takes authority and punishes those responsible.

nightmare2 said:

a teacher caught a student on their cell phone with a text recieved from someone else that contained a bad word in it they were given a detention. Which isn't fair because they didn't send the text. If it was from them then it would be.

So you're saying that the teacher actually confiscated the cellphone, then proceeded to read the text messages on the phone? If that were here, & happened to me; I would've gotten the teacher into serious trouble for breach of privacy. Nothing gives them the right to check a persons cellphone. Regardless of any school rule prohibiting their use during school hours. At most a teacher should only be allowed to confiscated the phone. Not actually use it.

I've had my phone taken off me by a teacher that hated students using them. Nevermind the fact that I had a written note from my parents explaining I needed that phone because my stepsister was due to have her baby any day & I'd have to leave school & go & take care of the younger children. The principle deemed that ok, he let me keep my phone, and keep it turned on during classes, so long as it was on silent.

Teacher didn't care; he tried several times to take it off me & in the end tried to force me to hand over. Once he took that step, I went to the principle & head of the PTA & school board & got the teacher suspended.

That kind of behaivour is too much. When it comes to cellphones, a student should be reassured that teachers aren't going to go snooping through their phones. My old school had an unwritten "rule" that if a teacher confiscated a phone, the student had to take the battery, & if it had one; sim card, out of the phone before handing it over.

« Last edited by sphynxx on Oct 13th 2010 »

sphynxx said:

nightmare2 said:

a teacher caught a student on their cell phone with a text recieved from someone else that contained a bad word in it they were given a detention. Which isn't fair because they didn't send the text. If it was from them then it would be.

So you're saying that the teacher actually confiscated the cellphone, then proceeded to read the text messages on the phone? If that were here, & happened to me; I would've gotten the teacher into serious trouble for breach of privacy. Nothing gives them the right to check a persons cellphone. Regardless of any school rule prohibiting their use during school hours. At most a teacher should only be allowed to confiscated the phone. Not actually use it.

I've had my phone taken off me by a teacher that hated students using them. Nevermind the fact that I had a written note from my parents explaining I needed that phone because my stepsister was due to have her baby any day & I'd have to leave school & go & take care of the younger children. The principle deemed that ok, he let me keep my phone, and keep it turned on during classes, so long as it was on silent.

Teacher didn't care; he tried several times to take it off me & in the end tried to force me to hand over. Once he took that step, I went to the principle & head of the PTA & school board & got the teacher suspended.

That kind of behaivour is too much. When it comes to cellphones, a student should be reassured that teachers aren't going to go snooping through their phones. My old school had an unwritten "rule" that if a teacher confiscated a phone, the student had to take the battery, & if it had one; sim card, out of the phone before handing it over.

No, during dismissal, while everyone was waiting for their buses, a girl had her phone out and a teacher who was walking by saw and read the text she had recieved. it contained some words that i can't repeat here so the teacher took it away and she went to the principals office. The teacher handed over the phone with the text stil displayed and she got in trouble because of the content in it. I think it was unfair because she had recieved the text from someone else so she really did nothing wrong.

But I know what you are saying. In my friends older sisters class something like that happened only the teacher did something worse along with snooping through the cell phone and got fired because of it.

nightmare2 said:

No, during dismissal, while everyone was waiting for their buses, a girl had her phone out and a teacher who was walking by saw and read the text she had recieved. it contained some words that i can't repeat here so the teacher took it away and she went to the principals office. The teacher handed over the phone with the text stil displayed and she got in trouble because of the content in it. I think it was unfair because she had recieved the text from someone else so she really did nothing wrong.

To me, that sounds like the teacher over-stepped his authority, as well as personal decency & breached the privacy of the student.

I'm all for teachers having the power to confiscate a phone during school hours/in class. But if the school has ended for the day, that should be it. Cellphones aren't interrupting anyones learning or studying. Therefore they shouldn't be seen as a problem.

What ticks me off is the fact the teacher actually had the nerve to look at another persons private text message. If I were the student, I would've created a huge fuss & walked away. Told my parents & then proceeded to take action against the teacher via the PTA & school board.

But her getting punished for it was completely irrational & heavy-handed. Especially as it was not during traditional school hours. If by "dismissal" you mean after the final school bell has rung & everyones heading home.

That one thing i hate about school the whole cellphone thing is stupid teahers can use them at any time of the day but even if the students phone falls out of their pocket they get in trouble for it. I hate when im takeing a test or something and the teachers phone goes of and there sitting there talking its really anyyoing

Teachers can use their phone because they're not gonna go ringing people or playing games mid-class.
And even if they get a call most (at least mine) will go outside and take the call.
And they only do it for important things.
Students however will use phones for anything.
As for falling out of a pocket, how are they to know?
Give em an inch and they'll take a mile.

However, yapping away during a test is kinda ridiculous....

CRAZY CHEATS said:

Teachers can use their phone because they're not gonna go ringing people or playing games mid-class.
And even if they get a call most (at least mine) will go outside and take the call.
And they only do it for important things.
Students however will use phones for anything.
As for falling out of a pocket, how are they to know?
Give em an inch and they'll take a mile.

However, yapping away during a test is kinda ridiculous....

Rediculous. How are we to know that their phone calls are important?

Conversely; How are they to know that our phone calls are not important?

The rules should be universal. If students are not allowed cellphones during class, teachers shouldn't either. Simply as pie.

« Last edited by sphynxx on Oct 17th 2010 »

Because, the only rare times that their phone has rang, it's always been their school phone (yes, they get a crappy little phone that other teachers use to contact them).
Maybe my school is just different.

As for us taking phone calls, they don't.
I think that if they did know it was important, they'd let us, but as I said, give em an inch and they'll take a mile. Let one person off with a call in class, next thing they all will.

Your school is indeed different to the one I went to. Perhaps we weren't big enough to warrant school cellphones having just over 400 students.

But my questions still stand. How can teachers know if a students call is important or not without violating important privacy laws? Most schools & teachers live by double standards & follow the thinking that simply because it's a student, they never get important phone calls.

It's utter rubbish.

sphynxx said:

Your school is indeed different to the one I went to. Perhaps we weren't big enough to warrant school cellphones having just over 400 students.

But my questions still stand. How can teachers know if a students call is important or not without violating important privacy laws? Most schools & teachers live by double standards & follow the thinking that simply because it's a student, they never get important phone calls.

It's utter rubbish.

Though to be fair the vast majority of the time its not going to be a life changing phone call its just going to be someone messing around or playing games on their phone. You can't allow everything on the off chance that one day someone might get an important phone call. Equally if you get an important phone call and you don't want the teacher to know as it breaks privacy laws then your not likely to be answering your phone surrounded by 30 odd other students. I don't know why so many kids have never heard of putting their phone on silent.

Yes I agree some schools take it to far.

^Elaborate a little on that please?

SuperCheatMaster said:

Yes I agree some schools take it to far.

As Derek said, you're going to need to elaborate more. D&D forum has a much, much higher demand for post quality than else where on the site. Posts like yours would be ok in General Chat, however here you must put some thought into the post.

You don't have to debate per se. You can simply put forward thoughts, so long as they are well put together. Although most people here lean toward the Debate side, not many people Discuss in this forum lol

Point of view. i see everything as I want it.

Most ppl have their phones on vibrate but occasionally you might hear one go off. Most ppl just take messages and check in between classes. Or they just take it out and ignore what the teacher is telling them at the time and use it. Anyway most ppl text these days in school, makes it easier for students to get the message.

If it is urgent and important then I don't they would call the cell phone they would probably call the school. And have them take the call there.

In Maths Class the other day my friends phone went off. The teacher looked at him and we were all laughing etc but since my friend was listening the teacher told him to answer it and my friend did.The teacher didnt even take the phone of him.

But there are teachers who are real *insert rude word here* at my school. Honestly our pants have small pockets and my phone hardly fits in them.We were playing handball for HPE and I was holding onto my phone so it wouldnt fall out.THe teacher took it because I was holding it.Later on because my passcode(its an iphone)was off because of my friend who I let her play on it I saw that the battery had been depleted more and it opened on the messages, private ones about..."deals"(not drugs but i cant say it)instead of the game I was playing at lunch.I went straight to the principal and he suspended that teacher for breach of privacy.

Now this isnt about phones but this is a conflict currently in my school.Okay so there are 4 squares where we usually play handball.It usually blocks 3 or 4 routes so we usually stop playing and let people through when they need to.Now near us people played and knocked over a teacher.Not even fully like she got caught and they lifted her up and she swore like hardcore like *rude words here like f word*and we the guys in the four squares get banned.We cant play there at all.Now those are not only the best squares but everywhere else someone tells us we cant play there.In middle school(im in senior and we cant go down there)there is a place but we arent allowed down there.We took it up with the principal but she said there was nothing they could do.So now because of one teacher we are banned.

Sixth formers have student ID at my school. If we forget it 5 times (it's not checke every day, but if you're randomly asked to produce it and you can't they log it) we're excluded perminantly from the school.

We're not allowed to wear jumpers/jackets that have hoods either. I'm yet to be given a reason.

Last year, many students who took part in a protest I organised were given detention for truancy. They really didn't/don't give a crap about us at all.

I was once excluded for two weeks because I disagreed with a detention and refused to do it. There was no meeting or any formal discussion about it to hear my side of the story. I only eventually went to it because if I was excluded once more i'd be expelled perminantly.

Schools these days have become too power hungry - if you don't do exactly as you are told and kiss their feet at every occation they come down on you like a ton of bricks. They don't care what you have to say. It's rediculous.

nicko 9000 said:

Sixth formers have student ID at my school. If we forget it 5 times (it's not checke every day, but if you're randomly asked to produce it and you can't they log it) we're excluded perminantly from the school.

We're not allowed to wear jumpers/jackets that have hoods either. I'm yet to be given a reason.

Last year, many students who took part in a protest I organised were given detention for truancy. They really didn't/don't give a crap about us at all.

I was once excluded for two weeks because I disagreed with a detention and refused to do it. There was no meeting or any formal discussion about it to hear my side of the story. I only eventually went to it because if I was excluded once more i'd be expelled perminantly.

Schools these days have become too power hungry - if you don't do exactly as you are told and kiss their feet at every occation they come down on you like a ton of bricks. They don't care what you have to say. It's rediculous.

You seem to miss the point of civil disobedience here. If you think a rule is wrong, you violate it. Which you did. But part of civil disobedience is accepting the consequences. If protesting a rule made the students truant, then they should accept that consequence. The point of the protest is to point out the absurdity of the rule and make it so that they would have so many people to punish that they would not have the means to do so, or that it would be so resource-intensive to do so, that they don't. Read some Ralph Waldo Emerson, and be ready to accept any consequences of your rebellion.

YoSoyJu said:

nicko 9000 said:

Sixth formers have student ID at my school. If we forget it 5 times (it's not checke every day, but if you're randomly asked to produce it and you can't they log it) we're excluded perminantly from the school.

We're not allowed to wear jumpers/jackets that have hoods either. I'm yet to be given a reason.

Last year, many students who took part in a protest I organised were given detention for truancy. They really didn't/don't give a crap about us at all.

I was once excluded for two weeks because I disagreed with a detention and refused to do it. There was no meeting or any formal discussion about it to hear my side of the story. I only eventually went to it because if I was excluded once more i'd be expelled perminantly.

Schools these days have become too power hungry - if you don't do exactly as you are told and kiss their feet at every occation they come down on you like a ton of bricks. They don't care what you have to say. It's rediculous.

You seem to miss the point of civil disobedience here. If you think a rule is wrong, you violate it. Which you did. But part of civil disobedience is accepting the consequences. If protesting a rule made the students truant, then they should accept that consequence. The point of the protest is to point out the absurdity of the rule and make it so that they would have so many people to punish that they would not have the means to do so, or that it would be so resource-intensive to do so, that they don't. Read some Ralph Waldo Emerson, and be ready to accept any consequences of your rebellion.

Well if it's private then they are allowed to do nearly whatever they. But in piblic schools students have alot more power. I can sorta see what you mean by power hungry but then again its not like they are putting up overly absurd rules that have no meaning or no possible relevent meaning.

Though I do have alot of problems with discipline at schools. I know alot since I get in trouble alot. If I get caught then I take what they give me. But some of the punishments are a bit much. Skipping a lunch detention gives you a Saturday detention, no matter what. Only a couple times have their been exceptions, like if parents intervene. But the point of them is to make you better behaved. But if there are rules and you protest against them then you should have rights given to you. Like getting together with the principal to work things out more fairly. But for that to happen you need alot of students to join in with you. The longer you disobey the greater the disciplinary action will be, but with more people obviously they can suspend or expel. If you disobey a rule then you should always be ready for punishments. No matter what your doing for what reason. it makes everything easier.