Abortion

This thread is for discussion of abortion. What is your stand on it?

Personally, I support Roe v. Wade. I believe it's the right of a woman to get an abortion if she chooses. However, I am strongly opposed to elective abortion personally; I find it sickening & immoral. I believe that if there isn't anything wrong with the baby or if the mother's health isn't at risk, OR if the pregnancy hasn't resulted from rape or incest, then she should have the child. If she doesn't want it, then give it up for adoption instead of killing it; it has as much right to live as anyone else. However, on a constitutional level, abortion is perfectly legal in my opinion, so there shouldn't be any laws preventing it. In that light, I believe we should try to phase out elective abortion in the near future through education about safe sex & better distribution of contraceptives.

I also believe that abortion clinics should be phased out, and that abortion services should be offered as a gynecological service instead. This would better protect the privacy & security of abortion services.

If a woman falls pregnant through consensual, unprotected sex then I'm on the fence when it comes to abortion.

Pregnancy causes some major, major changes to a womans body. Resulting in physical and mental changes, so to blanketly say "you have to have this baby" regardless of circumstances doesn't sit right with me.

However, should the pregnancy have been caused by consensual, unprotected sex and the woman can provide & care for the child, with the help of family & the father (either via court-ordered Child Support payments or the man accepting his responsibilities) then I believe the woman should raise that child as her own.

However if the woman in question was 14 years old, not able to support the child in any way, and the pregnancy was the result of what often is, a "mistake" sexual encounter, then I do not believe her life should be forever changed because of it.

If a woman falls pregnant due to rape, then there should be no question, anyone that tries to stop her from aborting that pregnancy obviously isn't aware of the social & psychological implications having a child whose father raped his/her mother can truly have. Even if the child is raised by it's biological mother and her spouse and the truth is never revealed, the burdern that is placed on the mother is something that anyone other than those who have dealt personally with such a woman can never comprehend

How long is it before the baby's heart start's beating? Two months into pregnancy? Well, whatever, I think abortion is acceptable under certain circumstances, provided it takes place before the baby is considered 'alive' (which is, if I'm not mistaken, when the heart begins to beat).

By 'certain circumstances', I'm talking about the usual exceptions (woman was raped/will have serious risks to her health etc.). If a woman falls pregnant due to a silly sexual encounter, then it's her own damn fault and an abortion should be denied - I believe such cases should stand testimony to the consequences of unsafe sex and that they be a lesson to people, particularly women, in the future. I don't think teenagers should be given in special treatment in such situations, either - they get plenty of sex education, especially regarding contraception, to my knowledge. Plus it would give other teenagers a bit of a scare.

My personal opinion is that women should keep the baby, as they are the ones at fault for not wearing protection, now, I know that in most cases the odd condom fails to work, but I'd still say women should keep the baby & put it up for adoption.

What sickens me though is when the fathers don't stick around to look after the babies, they leave it all down to the mothers as all they wanted was sex (sometimes without protection), which I find extremely selfish & ignorant & they use the lame excuses such as "I can't cope" or "I'm too stressed out" well, it's your own damn fault for not wearing any protection.

As Volke said above, about 2 months into Pregnancy is when the baby is actually considered alive. The only time I think it's accepteable to have an abortion is if the child is not alive yet.

Once the child's heart is beating I believe that abortion at that point is just murder. I believe abortion shouldn't be allowed unless special curcumstances arise, such as it becomes life threatening to either the mother, child, or both. Abortion after 2 months of pregnancy is like someone walking up to a newborn baby and shooting it. Your killing something that cannot defend itself for a stupid reason. "I don't want this child." The mother doesn't want it? We got somethign called adoption, where you let the baby live it's life.

I don't think the situation changes at all just because a woman became impregnated through rape. Of course it isn't her fault, but it's still murder if she chooses to have abortion after 2 months. That's my opinion, no matter what someone says its not gonna change. Your killing something that can't defend itself and before it even has a chance to start its life. I believe abortion should only be allowed up until the time in which the child is considered living, 2 months. After that it should become illegal because it's murder. Taking the life of another is catorgized as murder. No matter what.

nightmare2 said:

I don't think the situation changes at all just because a woman became impregnated through rape. Of course it isn't her fault, but it's still murder if she chooses to have abortion after 2 months. That's my opinion, no matter what someone says its not gonna change. Your killing something that can't defend itself and before it even has a chance to start its life. I believe abortion should only be allowed up until the time in which the child is considered living, 2 months. After that it should become illegal because it's murder. Taking the life of another is catorgized as murder. No matter what.

So in addition to having to spend the rest of her life with the torment and distress that rape naturally entails she would also have to live with the fact that she had been forced to give birth to his child, not forgetting that pregnancy is dangerous business anyway. How will the child feel once it grows up and finds out that the only reason they exsisted was because of one of the worst crimes a human can commit.

Also what if the mothers life is at risk if she gives birth and the only way to prevent this is with an abortion? Would you sit back and condemn her to a highly probable death when we can prevent it? Equally what happens if the mother discovers the child has a high chance of being born with severe physical or mental problems. The mother may not feel that her child will have any sort of quality of life and won't want to bring such a disabled child into the world. Would you still try a women who did this for murder? What about someone who rapes, lets say a 12 year old who gets pregnant, you would force her to have the baby? Or if someone rapes someone an adult who lacks capacity?

Personally I believe the abortion limit is fine where it is (24 weeks, last time I checked). Although a fetuses heart may start beating earlier at that stage the fetus is still unable to survive on its own outside of the womb. Its all very well saying that a beating heart signifys the start of life but without the rest of the fetus developed it might as well not be. Its like having only a chassis and engine and saying you've got a car. By about 24 weeks the fetus at least has a chance of surviving outside of the womb, though there is still a very high mortality and if they do survive a very high risk of severe mental damage.

This was quite a useful item. It is however quite incredibly boring so I'd read the bits your interested in.

http://www.bma.org.uk/image...6867.pdf

« Last edited by super craig on Mar 31st 2011 »

super craig said:

Also what if the mothers life is at risk if she gives birth and the only way to prevent this is with an abortion? Would you sit back and condemn her to a highly probable death when we can prevent it? Equally what happens if the mother discovers the child has a high chance of being born with severe physical or mental problems. The mother may not feel that her child will have any sort of quality of life and won't want to bring such a disabled child into the world. Would you still try a women who did this for murder? What about someone who rapes, lets say a 12 year old who gets pregnant, you would force her to have the baby? Or if someone rapes someone an adult who lacks capacity?

nightmare2 said:

I believe abortion shouldn't be allowed unless special curcumstances arise, such as it becomes life threatening to either the mother, child, or both.

As for the disabilities. I really don't see a difference, life is still being denied. Depending on how severe then I guess it could be allowed. I think that certain severe physical and mental disabilities should then allow the mother to choose if they won't to give an abortion.

I look at it from the point of view presented in Steven Levitt and Stephen Dubner's Freakonomics: The reduction in violent crime everywhere may have been in part due to the legalisation of abortion, on the premise that if a woman is raped or falls pregnant in the midst of a particularly bad break-up, she will come to resent the child, and the child will grow up and take out the lack of love from his mother out on the rest of society. For that reason, and because I do not believe that we should be spending time on laws that interfere with women's reproductive rights, I am pro-choice.

However, I do not agree with abortion being used simply as birth control or an 'out' for a future parent who's just gotten cold feet. From how I see it, if you actually try to get pregnant, you should be prepared to see the whole thing through.

nightmare2 said:

super craig said:

Also what if the mothers life is at risk if she gives birth and the only way to prevent this is with an abortion? Would you sit back and condemn her to a highly probable death when we can prevent it? Equally what happens if the mother discovers the child has a high chance of being born with severe physical or mental problems. The mother may not feel that her child will have any sort of quality of life and won't want to bring such a disabled child into the world. Would you still try a women who did this for murder? What about someone who rapes, lets say a 12 year old who gets pregnant, you would force her to have the baby? Or if someone rapes someone an adult who lacks capacity?

nightmare2 said:

I believe abortion shouldn't be allowed unless special curcumstances arise, such as it becomes life threatening to either the mother, child, or both.

As for the disabilities. I really don't see a difference, life is still being denied. Depending on how severe then I guess it could be allowed. I think that certain severe physical and mental disabilities should then allow the mother to choose if they won't to give an abortion.

My appologies, I completely missed the part in your post where you mentioned the special circumstances.

For me it's unacceptable, because all babies have the right to live. Even if they're not even a month old, they're already 'alive' to me. But in our country's case where homeless people and people who live in shambles get tons of kids, I think abortion should be legal. I see thousands of kids here without proper education and they hardly eat in a day! And I suppose it's better to kill the child before it's born that to abuse a human being. I guess some of those children would rather die than to live with suffering. But yes, abortion should be legal only if there's a valid reason.

Abortion is unacceptable. Like Volke said:

Volke said:

If a woman falls pregnant due to a silly sexual encounter, then it's her own damn fault and an abortion should be denied - I believe such cases should stand testimony to the consequences of unsafe sex and that they be a lesson to people, particularly women, in the future. I don't think teenagers should be given in special treatment in such situations, either - they get plenty of sex education, especially regarding contraception, to my knowledge. Plus it would give other teenagers a bit of a scare.

If the woman is raped, is should be open to her to abort the baby. So many teens get abortions, then go and have sex again, only to have another abortion. If they were denied, then they would see how hard it is to raise, and others would see that safe-sex is probably the better choice. However, I do believe if the woman and father who were denied the abortion, are incapable of raising the child, then it should be put up for adoption.

I do not support Abortion, but I support the pro-life stance less.

Mainly because if it was made illegal then it would start back to alley clinics like in other countries, which are plain bad.

No I despise aborters I hate them, it was their choice to not put something on the end of it or just get knocked up, abortion is midless murder if you don't want a child use protection or the morning after pill, or put the child up for adoption if you gave birth to it.

To be totally honest, I came into this forum with an opinion supporting life. Meaning, I totally disagreed with abortion. After reading everything that has been posted thus-far, I find I must agree with Nightmare 2.

snakespec said:

No I despise aborters I hate them, it was their choice to not put something on the end of it or just get knocked up, abortion is midless murder if you don't want a child use protection or the morning after pill, or put the child up for adoption if you gave birth to it.

Sorry to start sounding like a broken record here but the situations you have mentioned where people get abortions completely ignore some of the other points raised, namely the case of abortion in the event of rape or where there is a high chance of both the mother and child dying if the pregnancy continues or if the child will be born with severe disabilities.

Also there are people who believe that the morning after pill consititues a form of abortion if it interferes with implantation into the uterus lining (fertilisation will already have occured at that point). This is however not the main mechanism of action of the ECP which is often to inhibit ovulation and the post fertilisation effects are difficult to prove.

i strongly believe, while i respect any opinions to the contrary they are your opinions and you are entitled to them, that human life begins at conception, no matter the circumstances of pregnancy, and human life should not be taken at any stage.

xXlVlXx said:

i strongly believe, while i respect any opinions to the contrary they are your opinions and you are entitled to them, that human life begins at conception, no matter the circumstances of pregnancy, and human life should not be taken at any stage.

This is also my stance. Regardless of the time of the heart beating, the fetus is still a human child, and while it may not be clinically living, the fetus is still a living organism.

If it's a cause of rape, set the child for adoption, but don't take its life.

NO.That's sickening---I saw photos after the fact of the babies death.WHAT IS THIS WORLD COMEING TO!!!???? Those...children,cut up,scooped out etc....I tear up.Unless mother's gonna die....YOU PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT ABORTION ARE MONSTERS!!! THERE'S ENOUGH DEATH!!! My mother had 2 miscarriges.I know with all my heart that should would to any thing to keep my siblings heartsbeating.I might have a meltdown if I continue but---How is it that people are against "gays" but support the ending of a new life? you are alive as soon as conception

man. this whole forum is making m cry. i'm so glad that i have like-minded companions. i attend the choose life thing in cleveland every year and every year, abortion stays wrong. it's wrong and always will be. people will always be people no matter how dependent they are are mentally disabled not people because they also depend on their mothers as much as a fetus?

i'm saying this with my signature. XD i make myself laugh.