NFL - Discussion Thread

The way I look at it now is when a team drafts a quarterback in the first round they are taking a gamble and he could either be a hit or miss, more likely a miss but if they draft a defensive or offensive lineman with that high a draft pick the liklihood is that player turns into a pro bowl type player in a couple of years. I'm not sold on the hype of these quarterbacks coming out of college any more, I want to see results in the NFL before I decide if they can play.

Looks like the Redskins are going all out for a quarterback in the draft. I keep hearing the names Drew Lock and Wil Greer mentioned.

Serious rumors of Kyler Murray going #4 to the Raiders. Won't believe them unless the Raiders trade Carr before then.

Any QB is going to struggle in Washington (for eg, Alex Smith went from above average/elite in 2017/18, to average/below average in 2018/19). I'll say it again and again until the draft. The wide receivers are terrible, AND injury prone. Lock is the least accurate of the 4 so he'll need a good WR crop to throw to. Maybe Jones is the best bet, since he suffered badly from his WRs dropping the ball, and will be used to it when the same thing happens at Washington.

If Washington don't get a WR in the 1st round, they need to in the 2nd. There's quite a few handy WRs in this draft, so they have options. Either that, or bring back DeSean Jackson and sign Miami's Kenny Stills, who is rumored to be leaving. They have to address the position somehow.

EDIT - I've heard some of those Murray rumors too, but it could just be reporters creating fake hype. Jon Gruden recently talked about how there's big value on trading down, so don't be surprised if they lure in a desperate team like Miami, Washington, or even Denver.

« Last edited by Matt77 on Feb 27th 2019 »

Kyler Murray measured in at 5'10" instead of 5'8" as some thought, weighing close to 210 lbs. If he runs well at the combine, considering his great arm strength and accuracy, I'm sure he'll be the Top QB off the board. (Unless Haskins/Jones can show me something special.) I'm also sure this will mean he will be in play at both #1 and #4, should the Cards or Raiders decide to move on from Rosen or Carr, respectively.

Honestly, if the Cards don't select a QB at #1, then any of the teams from #2-#5 could be in play to trade down, as all would allow a team to trade up for who they feel is the best QB. If the Cards don't select a QB or Bosa #1, I have to think the 49ers will be getting at lot of calls to trade down, whether another team wants Bosa or the best QB. If Bosa goes #1 and Williams #2 as many expect, it will probably come down to the Jets at #3 or the Raiders at #4 trading down. I guess it all depends how much each team wants in return and how far other teams are willing to go in order to leap frog the Giants (or how much the Giants are willing to give up in order to jump and grab their next QB, should they be going in that direction). I honestly believe there is a 100% chance that at least one team between #1-#5 trades out of their original spot; it would be so strange, this year above all else, if that doesn't happen.

« Last edited by Warrior13 on Feb 28th 2019 »

Basically the only cons I've read about Murray are a) his height/weight and b) his hand size. But I haven't actually seen any negatives in his actual skill and ability.

That said, Arizona and Oakland are the worst teams in the NFL, but it's not their QB play that's the problem. Rosen has had one season, under the worst o-line in the NFL, and Carr has had half his teammates traded away and replaced by nobodies. Meanwhile Carr posted career-high numbers. Both teams need defensive or pass rush players.

It wouldn't surprise me though if Gruden trades away Carr for a 4th round pick.

« Last edited by Matt77 on Feb 28th 2019 »

Jon Gruden said in an interview today that he feels Kyler Murray will be off the board before #4, and an unknown GM said he thinks Murray will be the first QB gone. His height, weight and hand size were all average to above average, especially when most people thought he was 5'8" 185 lbs.

More rumors:

Giants may have interest in Kyler Murray now that his measurables have been made known. Also heard the Giants might want to add Nick Foles instead of drafting a QB.

Eli will be staying as a QB in 2019/20 (the Giants coach said so), so it seems he will be the bridge QB. They don't need Foles. And I'm pretty sure Foles will be mediocre away from Philly (similar to Keenum away from Minnesota).

Conformed - Jason Witten has come out of retirement and has signed a 1-year deal with Dallas.

Reliable rumor - NY Jets are keen to trade down and give another team their pick 3. We were both fairly confident a trade will be done with a team below pick 6, so this makes a lot of sense (it gets ahead of Oakland, and unless Arizona draft Murray, whichever team makes the trade for pick 3 will get 1st choice of a QB).

Even if what you say about this class being mediocre, there's certainly as much pre-draft talk as there was last season. It's what I need, since Australian sports aren't back on yet and all I have to follow is soccer right now...

« Last edited by Matt77 on Mar 1st 2019 »

With all this talk about the quarterbacks I still think the best route for a team is take the best player available at the position you need filling most first. I still believe the quarterback position needs a grooming period, throwing a kid out of college into an NFL game in their first season with a club is just madness, most of those college players are in their early twenties and come from small towns in the middle of nowhere.

I fully expect the Redskins to do something ridiculous and trade with the Raiders for their no.4 to get a quarterback and in doing so trade away quality players. I can just see it now... Being the nations captial Gruden has a ton of pressure on him to sort out the quarterback position.

Raiders are sticking with Carr, they're trying to entice a team to trade for their no.4. I wonder if Jon will do his little brother Jay a favour and do a trade so the Redskins get their quarterback.

I'll be keeping a close eye on Cleveland this draft, they're are begining to look like a championship team in the making. A couple of more top quality players in key positions and they will be a serious threat.

I had a wild theory a month or 2 ago, but maybe it could still happen, especially with the Grudens link. Oakland trade their pick 4 and pick 68 to Washington, allowing them to get their franchise QB, and in return Washington send picks 15, 47, and Adrian Peterson to Oakland. Believe it or not, that wouldn't be such a bad deal for Washington, Derrius Guice is right on track to fully recover from his ACL tear before pre-season, and there's no reason why he wont slow down. Gurley tore his ACL in high school, and look at him now.

Most mock drafts have Cleveland just picking an o-line player. They don't need to do much this draft. O-line could be improved I guess, another WR could be added for depth, and maybe another CB to complement Denzel Ward. Pittsburgh better hope they get good compensation for Brown leaving, since they chose to allow Bell to walk away for free (identical to Washington's stupidity a year ago). The AFC North is a 2-horse race between Cleveland and Baltimore, with Pittsburgh an unlikely chance to contend. But it's Cleveland's to lose.

Another rumor: Redskins like both Jones and Lock. I am fairly confident one or both will be available when they select.

Another rumor - It seems that Josh Rosen is leaving Arizona. I saw something saying that Rosen deleted his Arizona pictures on social media. Combine that with Murray doing an interview with Arizona, Kingsbury raving about Murray, Kingsbury having coached Murray, & Murray's height, weight, and hand size being better than predicted, and you've got yourself a case of Murray in and Rosen out (probably to an AFC team).

Haskins almost seems a lock to go to NY Giants now. The only way that won't happen is if a team trade in front of them. Having Haskins sit behind Eli for a season would be very wise.

Murray is now the favorite for #1.

Yep. It seems a formality now. The big question that everyone seems to be forgetting is: where will Josh Rosen be traded to? For a team like Miami or Washington, this could be a huge opportunity to land a QB. If Arizona try to play hard ball and ask for 2019 and 2020 1st rounders, MIA/WAS can just say no and ask for a more reasonable deal, since there's no value in keeping Rosen as a backup. Hypothetically lets say Miami are interested, if they say they'll give their pick 45 and a 2020 3rd rounder, Arizona may have to settle for a very poor deal.

This could be ominous for Rosen. Before the 2018 draft the big question mark was whether he could keep his arrogance under control and get on with his teammates. Perhaps Arizona are fed up with him after just 1 season. I mean, for them to be considering taking Kyler Murray over Nick Bosa with the #1 pick, they must be keen to either acquire Murray, or get rid of Rosen. Or both.

Another rumor - Todd Gurley has arthritis in his injured knee...

I've heard that the Giants might be interested in Rosen, but, obviously, not for a First Rounder. The Cards will have to settle for a high 2nd Rounder, unless, of course, the Raiders want him and give up one of their late Firsts.

The bigger questions are will the 49ers select Bosa or trade out if Murray goes #1, who will trade with the 49ers if Murray is selected #1, how much the 49ers will reap from a trade, and if the team they trade with will select Bosa or Haskins.

Huh? I would've thought if Arizona take Murray at #1 or bait a QB-needy team into trading, then San Francisco would have about a 95% chance of taking Bosa immediately. He is clearly the best player in the draft, and SF need an edge rusher. Make no mistake, SF are close to contending for playoffs, even being in the division they are. I mean, CJ Beathard nearly beat Green Bay and LA Chargers, and Nick Mullens beat Seattle. Both did it with SF's #1 running back out with an ACL. When Garoppolo (who will have a new elite TE to throw to) and Jerick McKinnon come back, imagine what they could do with Bosa coming in.

I agree, Bosa should be the pick. But I've read the Niners might want to add a number of great players instead of just one amazing player. We'll see. ;)

Another rumor: Redskins might have interest in Josh Rosen if he is on the trading block and Arizona isn't expecting a first round in return. Makes senses, especially since it would allow the Skins to hold onto their First Round Pick to improve elsewhere.

I would imagine Arizona would go to Miami first, due to the fact they're 2 spots ahead of Washington, and are in the AFC, meaning they will only face Rosen once every 4 seasons. No doubt Washington would want Rosen though, but they better hope Miami don't want him.

The key here is that there's no way Rosen will sit, compared to the rookie QBs. This eliminates Denver even though they'll be semi-interested in a QB. Cincy are a long shot too, so it's basically Miami/Washington, or Arizona keep him. Brady/Brees/Rivers are too old, so there's no chance he goes and sits for 3 years.

Unfortunately, I think he'll end up in Miami. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy who's good for the locker room. However I wouldn't mind as much if we can manage to get him for our pick 45.

« Last edited by Matt77 on Mar 4th 2019 »

The Redskins are talking about trading for Josh Rosen at the combine. Not sure he is the answer to Washington's problems, I just get the feeling they would just be taking on another teams problem player. I hope Washington don't trade for Rosen after reading this.. 'This guy should not have been a 1st round pick. His throws are 5-10 yards off target' and 'Tons of Issues' and also seeing photos of him falling asleep during an NFL game the Cardinals were playing and getting resoundingly beat in. The guy has bust written all over him, he's another Jeff George, talented but flawed. I hope the Redskins aren't stupid enough to trade their first round pick for him, even their second...

Not long before the draft, I get more excited about the draft than I do about the Super Bowl.

Yep I agree. About both things.

It's quite fitting that the clubs the 3 of us support are Miami and Washington, and both those clubs are:
a) Mediocre
b) In need of a QB
c) Likely to land Rosen
d) Thick
e) Likely to finish last in their division

Rosen: (6.19)
Strengths - Tennis prodigy with impeccable footwork and delivery balance. Plays with excellent coordination between eyes and feet. Gets head around quickly on play-fakes. Has experience under center. Anchors in pocket and doesn't creep around needlessly. Trusts his protection and doesn't take eyes of targets when pressure mounts from the edge. Climbs pocket when appropriate. Willing to stand and deliver in face of pressure. Completed 63 percent of his passes when blitzed in 2017. Accuracy totals negatively impacted by 31 receiver drops this year. Holds his water in pocket. Mechanics are terrific. Rarely over-strides and throws with consistently bent front knee. Throwing motion and follow-through are effortless. Extremely confident and intelligent. Throws receivers open. Might be best back shoulder thrower in the game. Shows ability to speed up operation time for move to next level. Very good usage of shoulder fakes and hitches to move defenders or buy additional time for receivers to uncover. Touch passer who can throw feathers when needed.
Weaknesses - Durability is a concern. Carries slight build and has had injury issues dating back to high school. Carries ball low in pocket with slight upward pre-throw hitch. Too casual in pocket set-up. Decision making and post-snap reads are inconsistent. Refuses easy throws at times. Arm talent and strength are below average. May need to make greater effort to drive field and seam throws. Poor career deep ball completion rate. Excess air under ball allows challenges. Lacks gun to challenge safeties with rip throws over the top. Needs better anticipation. Poor mobility. Struggles to elude early pressure. Completed just 42.4 percent of his throws when forced to move. Too much hero ball. Extends plays and takes unnecessary chances rather than throwing it away. Scouts question his passion for football and whether he will be a willing student.
Summary - Josh Rosen's footwork and mechanics make him as pretty a quarterback as you will find in this year's draft. The biggest concern with Rosen is that his on-field success requires many elements to stay on schedule. He lacks plus arm strength, so identifying coverage (pre- and post-snap) and throwing with anticipation takes on added importance. Rosen has the pocket poise, accuracy and intelligence to become a good NFL starter, but he needs to be willing to take what defenses give him more frequently. Rosen will need to quell concerns surrounding leadership and coachability early on in order to establish a strong first impression and get his career off on the right foot.

What I see in Rosen is an extremely talented man (was a tennis prodigy before switching to NFL), but with a huge ego that must be controlled. If it is, his weaknesses such as throwing too many risky passes will disappear. His potential is massive though.

In that case I hope Miami get him then Matt, I have a bad feeling about the guy. Whenever a player isn't popular in the locker room there is usually a good reason. I also don't like the fact that he was a Tennis prodigy, that tells me straight away he's not really a team player because as a kid he opted for a solo sport that relied on his own talent rather than join a team. I hope Washington take a chance in the draft instead of taking a chance with another teams cast-off, been there, done that with Alex Smith.

The quarterback falling asleep in an NFL game he is losing...come on Matt, doesn't that make alarm bells ring. Can you imagine Tom Brady falling asleep during a game he is losing, he'll be jumping up and down on the sideline getting in peoples faces trying to motivate them. Rosen's not interested, he'll be out of the NFL within three years, he's just going through the motions to make a quick buck.