NFL - Discussion Thread

nice thread guys. nice to meet you.

I see the Giants and Chargers are interested in Rosen. It's interesting that the Giants are sniffing about because if they trade for him that means another top quarterback will still be available when it's the Dolphins and Redskins turn to pick. At the moment everyone is presuming the Giants will go for Haskins. I don't think the draft order will become clear until the Raiders have made their first selection. I personally think they will go with Carr this year and go for Tua Tagovailoa, Jake Fromm, or Justin Herbert in 2020. Saying that though I hear Gruden is particularly keen on Drew Lock in the 2019 draft as he has coached him before in college.

Warrior - I didn't mean the picks value. I meant I don't think Oakland would want to trade up to pick 13. There's little point, unless they want a QB.

Dennis - That's a good point you make. I keep thinking that Rosen is probably going to go to NY Giants. I just see no other realistic destination*. He'd have to sit for 2-3 years at New England or LA Chargers, Miami have Fitz, Washington have 3 QBs capable of starting, and Denver have Flacco.

*The team I am considering now though is Pittsburgh. They have Mason Rudolph, but he was projected to be a backup in the NFL. Pittsburgh may want a fresh start from all this drama their players and ex-players are causing. Big Ben will probably finish up this season, and if not, 2020/21 will definitely be the end.

There's a good chance that Oakland take a QB like you said. After all, Gruden said that Carr is their starting QB for the future. It would be very interesting if Carr is replaced. Where would he go?

You just never know who will fall. ;)

That's a good point Matt, Washington have 3 quarterbacks on the roster and I've never heard of an NFL team starting the season with 4. So perhaps all this talk of Washington looking at a rookie quarterback is just misdirection and Gruden is looking at getting a top prospect in another position which judging by the recent trades and cuts Washington have been making would be wide reciever. But then again Miami are rumoured to be going after a wide reciever as well. The way things are going I'm beginning to wonder if one of this years top quarterbaks will fall to the Patriots who haven't extended Brady's contract for more than a year.

Brady's going nowhere, especially after his retirement April Fools joke. If New England are smart, they should give their 1st round pick to another team, and in return acquire another 2020 1st rounder. Then they can trade up and take one of the 2020 top 3 prospects (who will sit behind Brady before he retires). I hope that NE take a QB in this draft, because they will leave for another team before they ever become the starter (Garoppolo).

If the coach came out and literally stated that the rookie will be starting, that means one of two things. Washington will be drafting a QB, or Jay Gruden is a liar just like his brother. When I made that post I completely forgot about Gruden's comments. Surely either Colt McCoy will be cut, or Alex Smith will announce his retirement. 4 QBs on a list is just too extreme, especially when all of them will be capable. Then again, Miami had 5 QBs on their roster last season, so who knows.

Still, what a horrible move to sign Case Keenum if he will be the backup from day 1.

What you say about Miami and a wide receiver is very interesting. There are tonnes of other holes in the team that will need to be filled with draft picks, but Miami could easily take one through the International Pathway Program (not sure if that's the correct name of it). Every year a bunch of international hopefuls enter a 3 month program, one division at random is chosen, and one of the teams in that division must select one of these foreign players (it doesn't cost a draft pick). The AFC East is that division this time. I think I mentioned Australian player Valentine Holmes a few months ago, and he is listed as a WR/RB/kick returner.

At first glance it would seem like I'm just getting excited over an Australian player who I've seen tear another code apart, but 12 weeks ago he had never played any form of NFL before. He's had to learn from scratch how to play, and now he's performing in front of scouts. I have no doubt he will be effective as at least a kick returner. Sadly, I can see Bill Belichick getting his hands on him and transforming him into a proper NFL player...

« Last edited by Matt77 on Apr 2nd 2019 »

And the AAF has 'suspended operations' ie it is finished. It didn't have much chance to succeed though, with next to no financial help from the NFL and a range of rule-changes that were pretty confusing as times.

The embarrassment that was the XFL will be returning in 2020... And it is near identical to the AAF, but with a few more bad rules.

I know nothing about the AAF or XFL Matt, the only league I did have a bit of interest in when it started was the USFL when it started in 1983. The league was started by Donald Trump and a few other rich dudes and they poached the best talent from the draft. Players like:
Steve Young, QB.
Anthony Carter, WR.
Jim Kelly, QB.
Herschel Walker, HB.
Reggie White.
All of the above are now in the NFL Hall of Fame.

I see that Seahawks Quarterback Russell Wilson is giving Seattle until April 15 to sort out his contract. Why are they stalling? It will cause a few ripples just before the draft if he enters th market.

He wants the largest contract in the NFL. Perhaps Seattle don't think he deserves it. After all, he isn't even a top 5 QB. If Wilson wants to win another SB, he shouldn't be demanding a huge pay check that will hurt Seattle's chances of signing more players in free agency.

The NFL needs to sort out a reserves competition or competitions. I just wish they would say "We are creating four 8-team reserves competitions, in which players on a team's roster or practice squad, as well as players not employed by an NFL team, can play in." It would be fascinating if it was designed whereby the AFC East and NFC East, the AFC North and NFC North, the AFC South and NFC South, and AFC West and NFC West, were all grouped together in 4 competitions. The reserve teams in each division would play each other twice, and then play the opposing division's teams once, totaling 10 games. Then the winners of each division in each competition could enter a playoffs competition whereby they begin with the quarterfinals, then semi finals, and a Superbowl. The 8 teams could be seeded based on their W-L record.

To me, that would be a far better setup. The players wouldn't be able to complain about excessive travel, because all of their regular season opponents would come from the same area (ie AFC East and NFC East are all on the eastern side of the country). And it should be designed exactly like an NFL game, with all the same rules, and if the NFL want to test a new rule like replaying missed PIs, they can announce that during weeks x and y, these new rules will be tested. PATs should exist. Punts in overtime should exist. Onside kicks should exist.

This is very similar to what Australia do, and it works wonderfully. Several states have their own separate reserve competitions, and teams have a mix of full time and part time players. If an NFL reserve competition was formed, you could have Case Keenum starting in the NFL, Colt McCoy/the rookie being his backup, and Colt McCoy/the rookie starting in the reserve competition. It's perfect for players low on confidence or young players that need time to adjust to playing against 25+ year olds.

Rumor I'm hearing:

Cardinals are going to select Kyler Murray or Nick Bosa #1. Duh, right? However, both could be smokescreen. By that, I mean they could be trying to get either the Raiders or 49ers to trade with them. It was rumored that the Raiders might love Murray, while it's being reported that the 49ers like Bosa more than Williams.

If the Cardinals are set on Murray, they might be able to get a free third round pick by baiting the 49ers into trading with them. The Niners would get BOsa at #1, and then the Cardinals at #2.

If the Cardinals have been lying all along and don't want Murray, they could get a ton if they can bait the Raiders into trading with them. Doubt this since Gruden/Mayock aren't going to give a load for anybody when they still have Carr.

Most likely: The Cardinals will be stuck at #1 and will select Murray. 49ers will hold tough and draft Bosa #2.

Oakland had a private workout with Murray, and on Twitter they keep posting about him. Either they're trying to bait a team into trading down for...Murray? (doesn't make any sense) or they're interested in trading up to #1 and will offload Carr to Arizona in exchange for their pick 27 coming back.

I need a Tardis, now.

There is a similar setup to what you suggest in the U.K. regarding soccer, especially at the school boy stage where in most schools there is a 1st and 2nd team. I think some professional soccer clubs employ it as well to give their reserves a runout so they stay sharp and try out new signings, I know for sure Barcelona F.C. has a second team.

What are the Cardinals up to? They've expressed an interest in Kyler Murrey in the draft but don't seem in a hurry to offload Rosen making a lot of people question what they are up to. Rumour has it if the Cardinals don't take Murrey the Raiders will jump on him. Although the Redskins are looking at taking a quarterback if one falls to them in the draft they have as is procedure scheduled meetings with every top rated quarterback in the draft...except Murrey. I wonder if that is because Jays older brother Jon has already told him if the Cardinals don't take Murrey the Raiders will.

Yeah, soccer teams have U19s, U21s, and U23s. Nearly Swansea's entire first team were playing U23s last season. If reserve teams didn't exist, then oh boy lets not go there...

I have no idea where this Murray/Rosen saga is going. Arizona have reached the point of no return with Rosen; no way he's coming back next season. So either they're taking Murray, taking Carr in a trade, or trading down to take one of the lesser QBs. The most likely scenario is that they can't find a suitor for Rosen, but plan to eventually offload him and take Murray.

I'm finding this draft more interesting than last year's.

Matt77 said:

Oakland had a private workout with Murray, and on Twitter they keep posting about him. Either they're trying to bait a team into trading down for...Murray? (doesn't make any sense) or they're interested in trading up to #1 and will offload Carr to Arizona in exchange for their pick 27 coming back.

I need a Tardis, now.

More like trying to bait a team to trading up to #4 no matter which QB is still available. They've met with Murray, Haskins and Lock.

I think you are right Matt, the NFL draft is more interesting this year. Last year we pretty much knew who was going to go for who at this stage. As things stand at the moment nobody is sure what is going to happen, you've got the Cardinals and Raiders messing everybody below them about. Now added to the mix is the Giants persuing a trade for Russel Wilson. I'm beginning to think that this years crop of quarterbacks are nowhere near the caliber of last years which maybe the case as it was clearly said before the draft last year that the top four quarterbacks where the best since the 1983 draft that had Marino, Kelly, and Elway and to be honest none of last years players set the league on fire. Baker Mayfield was the best of the bunch but he's not elite yet, maybe in a year or two. The other three I have my reservations on, particularly Rosen who struggled badly. I'm wondering if teams are beginning to think that it is safer to trade for a proven veteran than take a chance with a rookie.

I'm wondering if Gruden plans on going with Carr this year and seeing the team tank in the hope of getting Tua next season for when they start their season as the Las Vegas Raiders. And in the meantime use this seasons draft to bolster the squad which he ripped the heart out of last year getting rid of his best players. Gruden has time, he's on that ridiculous 10 year $100 million contract.

True. I keep forgetting about all the possible scenarios!

Can Cincy afford to trade up to pick 4? They're a team that's just floating in 5-11 to 8-8 mediocrity. Joe Mixon is underrated, AJ Green is a much better player than he's showed the last 2 seasons, and remember Cincy were 4-1 before having a horrible run of injuries on defense. Or are they better off waiting for 2020? We keep forgetting about them, because it's easy to forget about them.

Any of these teams has a small to big chance of drafting a QB:
New England
Miami
Pittsburgh
Cincy
Tennessee
LA Chargers
Denver
Oakland
Washington
NY Giants
Detroit
Tampa Bay
Arizona

Looking at it, it's going to be impossible to predict. I mayaswell just randomise it:
Murray to Tennessee
Grier to LA Chargers
Lock to Arizona
Rosen to Denver
Jones to Detroit
Finley to Washington
Haskins to Oakland
It would be hilarious if 1 or 2 of those are actually correct.

EDIT - You posted at the same time as me Dennis, so I didn't see your post initially.

No way Oakland will tank. They're trying for playoffs right now. And keep in mind, the more Oakland lose, the more likely Brown is to be a diva and have a temper tantrum. They're unlikely to make playoffs, but they want to win as many games as possible.

I'm amazed at how quickly everyone has jumped on the NY Jets bandwagon and assume that Darnold is a franchise QB. Yes he had a good end to the year, but his first half of the season was terrible. Miami tore him to shreds both times they played each other. He's thrown a combined 1TD 6INTs against Miami. The fans of Buffalo and NY Jets are also irritating. They legitimately think their teams are good, and NY Jets especially are acting like they've won the SB. Lets see how Darnold and Allen go this season (especially Allen). Rosen was a victim of horrific o-line play at Arizona. He can only be judged when he plays for a different team next season. Arizona better fix their o-line in the draft, otherwise Murray will suffer the same fate.

« Last edited by Matt77 on Apr 5th 2019 »

My guesses right now...

Cardinals - Murray #1
Cincy - Haskins #11
Redskins - Lock #15
Giants - Manning, Jones #17
Bucs - Finley (2nd Round)
Chargers - Grier (2nd Round)
Patriots - Rosen/Beathard (Trade), Thorson (3rd Round)
Raiders - Carr (Wait Until 2020)
Denver - Flacco (Wait Until 2020)
Dolphins - Fitzpatrick (Tank Until 2020)

« Last edited by Warrior13 on Apr 5th 2019 »

Before I list my thoughts on the draft, I must warn you Jimo Dashen. Miami's strategy of tanking will not work. Fitzpatrick is good enough to get us 5 wins. He will be hot and cold all season, but we've seen that when hot, he can be a top 5 QB (weeks 1 and 2 of 2018/19).

1 - Kyler Murray (Arizona)
5 - Dwayne Haskins (Cincy, projected trade with Tampa Bay)
13 - Drew Lock (Washington, projected trade with Miami)
28 - Daniel Jones (LA Chargers)
NY Giants trade with Arizona, sending pick 37, and receiving Rosen.
64 - Will Grier (New England)
65 - Ryan Finley (Tampa Bay, projected trade with Arizona)

Murray is surely going to Arizona.

Cincy have not extended Andy Dalton's contract beyond 2019, which is telling. Tampa Bay traded down last draft, and I see them being willing to do the same, as pick 11 is still valuable. Cincy will want to get ahead of NY Giants in case they want Haskins.

Washington have stated they are drafting a QB, and they've been linked with Haskins and Lock. Haskins will be gone, so they'll settle for Lock. They will want to guarantee getting him, and since Miami are stockpiling picks, a trade works here for both parties.

Jones could easily go earlier, but I see Miami and NY Giants drafting impact players instead. LA Chargers did sign Tyrod Taylor to a 2-year deal, but Jones is too good a prospect to pass up on.

NY Giants will probably decide to trade for Rosen. They were linked with him in the 2018 draft, and assuming they upgrade their o-line, he could thrive, whether it's part way through this season or next. They could select a QB at pick 17, but why use up 17 when you can instead trade away 37 (a very good outcome for Arizona).

New England have two 2nd round picks, but they wont go QB first. Grier is in my eyes an underrated player with a good chance of surprising people. He is someone who would benefit from sitting for a year or two.

Winston is hot and cold, and with his personality, Tampa Bay will surely move on from him soon. Finley is a good prospect who could be anything. They will trade up here in order to get ahead of Pittsburgh, who may be in the market for another backup QB.

« Last edited by Matt77 on Apr 6th 2019 »

I believe it's becoming more and more obvious that the Raiders and Giants aren't going to draft a QB with their first picks. Because of this, if Cincinnati really wanted to jump up, they would only have to go to #9 to skip the Broncos.

It's definitely going to be interesting to see what happens. There could be so many trades, or there could be very few.

It depends on whether Cincy badly want Haskins, or whether they'd be happy with Lock. If they want Haskins only, they'll take no chances and trade up to 5.

Also, it seems unlikely to be that Denver will draft a QB at pick 10. They might, but logic says they shouldn't. They traded for Flacco because they're convinced he is an above average QB who can make them a contender. If they don't use pick 10 to strengthen the team, it would be counter-productive.

Perhaps they're better off not trading, and drafting at 11.

I'm still waiting for that Tardis...