NFL - Discussion Thread

I think Wentz is done in Philly. I think Doug Pederson is out too. All the reports are saying the players are devastated by what he did on sunday, and that's outside of his relationship with Wentz. The problem with getting rid of Wentz is that his contract is such an albatross that they'll likely have to send a 2nd or 3rd round pick with him - like how the Texans had to give up a second round pick to get rid of Osweiler. If they trade him it'll be early in the offseason because if he's on the team after March 20 they'll have to eat 9 mil in dead cap, and the Eagles are already in cap hell.

The Colts do seem the most likely option though.

I think Dak will get his Cowboys payday, this year showed how necessary he is. He probably made them a 10 or 11 win team.

Carr is one of those guys that makes you think he's top 5 one week and barely top 20 the next. I think he's just good enough to stick around cause he's on a pretty friendly contract, and defense is the much bigger issue there.

I think Lock is done being a starter. He's just not very good. I have him ranked pretty evenly with Daniel Jones, but I think Jones will get one more year as a starter because of his draft position and because he's shown some flashes. He really needs to work on the fumbling.

No idea about Beathard, but I think the Vikings will be staying put.

A couple guys should be available in the offseason. Matt Stafford, Jimmy G, Matt Ryan, maybe Philip Rivers if the Colts don't bring him back and he doesn't retire. Even guys like Janeis Winston, Gardner Minshew. Sam Darnold. I think a lot of guys will be on the market, but I really only see Washington or Denver making a splash. I don't think there's any other team that is "a QB away" where making a trade for one of the better guys makes sense. The Patriots, maybe. I could see them making a move for a guy like Wentz. The Steelers certainly need someone. I still think they could rehabilitate Darnold.

Warrior - People forget how Tua played with a healthy WR group. I watched his highlights from the Arizona game, and he was quick, accurate, and not afraid to throw a bit deeper. Losing Preston Williams to injury really hurt his progress. Then combine it with having an OC who was hired to create plays for Fitz, and it's not surprising that Tua's level dropped.

Tua's stats have been:
9 games
186/290 (64%)
1814 yards (9.8 yards per completed pass)
11TDs
3 rushing TDs
5INTs
1 lost fumble
87.1 passer rating

Basically, Tua was a competent game manager in an offense designed for a game manager. And Fitz was a competent gunslinger in an offense designed for a gunslinger.

Mike - I don't understand why Wentz has lost his starting job. In his second season he would've won MVP if not for his ACL injury. Actually, now that I type that, I do wonder whether his ACL injury has contributed to his downfall. He's also surrounded by a mediocre WR group who are also injury-prone. I mean, Philly could've drafted Justin Jefferson, but chose a projected 2nd rounder instead. From what I've seen, I don't think Jalen Hurts is a good enough passer of the ball to be a long-term starter.

Dak - He will get signed onto a monster contract.
Carr - He will, and should, stay on as the starter. He's a solid QB, and the reason Las Vegas went 2-5 in their last 7 games was because of the defense and playcalling.
Lock - He looked good in his rookie season, but has dropped off despite having an underrated WR group to pass to. Denver will draft or trade for a QB.
Jones - I think he'll be a bust, but he will keep his job and have one final chance.
Beathard - Clearly he's better than Mullens. He'll probably stay as the SF backup, while Mullens will be cut.
Stafford - Unfortunately I think his time with Detroit is ending soon. He has deserved far better from Detroit. Hopefully he will stay on as a bridge QB.
Ryan - Atlanta should draft a QB with their pick. Given the talent on the team, Atlana won't find themselves with a top 4 pick for a while, so they have to do it. Ryan could potentially stay on as a bridge QB while the rookie develops.
Rivers - He has surprised me and played very well. I think he has another year in him.
Winston - Washed.
Minshew - He'll be one of the better backups in the league. Horrible the way Jacksonville treated him this season. There is no way that Mike Glennon is the better QB.
Darnold - The Jets will move on from him. The damage is already done, and it's not even Darnold's fault. He'll get picked up fairly quickly.

EDIT - I have to end this post with appreciation for Deshaun Watson. In a 4-12 team, Watson has thrown for 33TDs, 7INTs, 3 rushing TDs, and 3 lost fumbles. Houston have lost 8 games by a score, and plausibly could've been as high as 12-4 with even a below average defense.

« Last edited by Matt77 on Jan 5th 2021 »

Wentz has had about 3 good years out of 5. This year he was just terrible, and you can't trust him to be consistent and he has an injury history. If you watch games from last year versus this, I mean actually watch games and not look at stats, he just looks so bad. You can blame some of it on the supporting cast, but I'd argue that his receivers this year are better than last, and he carried them into the wild card last year. Only his 2017 and 2019 seasons have been very good, the others his been mediocre to bad or injured.

I think Wentz can be a good QB but not in Philly. I think in 2019 he finally got over the Nick Foles shadow by taking them to the playoffs, and then they went and drafted a qb in the 2nd round. A lot of it is a confidence/mental thing. But he also has mechanical issues. He tries too hard to make big plays and will end up taking a sack or fumbling instead of throwing the ball away. He holds on to the ball far too long. He gained a good 15 pounds and was far less mobile this season. And he missed a ton of really easy throws.

At this point with his contract he's a negative asset, but I think he can succeed with Indy under Frank Reich, and possibly with the Patriots. I also think he'd be good on the Steelers but his contract makes it near impossible. If he were a second or third year guy on a rookie contract it would be a totally different story. But his extension kicks in this upcoming season and he'll be a top-5 highest paid QB, and 1.5 seasons of top 5 play and 3.5 of bottom 10 don't cut it, and I'd argue he was bottom 3 this year.

« Last edited by steelersrock01 on Jan 6th 2021 »

Matt: The only appreciate I have for Watson is that he was the QB on the team that gave us a Top 3 Pick. XD

Mike: I can definitely see Belichick going after Wentz, especially since the are at #15 and probably won't get one of the Top QB Prospects. I'm not sure what their Cap will look like at the start of Free Agency, but there have been rumors of them possibly trading CB Gilmore for some picks. That should create enough space for Wentz and that horrible contract. Who knows, the Pats might even take less of compensation for taking on his contract if the Eagles are willing to pay part of it.

Overthecap says the Pats have about $63 million in cap space going into 2021, but I'm not sure that factors in draft reservations. They have enough to take him. The Colts have similar space too with Brissett and Rivers coming off the books. I'm not sure the Eagles can afford to eat part of it, they're 70mil over the cap. I think that whole roster is getting turned over.

Then they'll definitely have to pay someone to take him. That or repair the relationship and have him start.

Miami OC Chan Gailey has 'resigned' from his job. This is great news for Tua. Now Miami need to hire a good OC to create a playbook designed for Tua. Then in 2021/22 we will truly be able to see whether Tua is a franchise QB.

Going with Colts, Seahawks, Buccaneers, Ravens, Saints & Steelers.

Bills, Seahawks, Bucs, Titans, Saints, and Steelers for me.

Straight chalk? Come only, Mike! jk lol

Baltimore's favored over Tennessee, homie. I'm not playing it that safe! And I can't in good conscience choose Chicago over NO, Was over TB or Cleveland over Pitt with the Cleveland coaches out with covid. And I'm not sure if Goff is playing vs Seattle and I really like Buffalo over Indy.

« Last edited by steelersrock01 on Jan 7th 2021 »

The Ravens are favored? Vegas has lost their minds. lol

By 3 lol. Tennessee's got the advantage in the yahoo pick distribution though.

Going with Colts, Seahawks, Buccaneers, Titans, Saints & Browns.

There's always an upset in the wild cards. Too much of an ask for Washington to beat the Bucs but I wouldn't be surprised if the Browns turned over the Steelers.

Bills, Seahawks, Buccaneers, Titans, Saints, & Steelers.

Indy @ Buffalo will depend a lot on which Indy team turns up. They've been pretty inconsistent. If the good one shows up, they might be able to spring an upset over a Buffalo team that has got used to winning.

LA Rams @ Seattle should be a formality, however we never know which Goff will turn up. And he may not even play.

I wasn't brave enough, but I can smell an upset in Tampa Bay @ Washington. Brady is the type of QB that the Washington D-line will love (he isn't mobile at all). If Washington can keep the score close, they have a chance.

Baltimore @ Tennessee is a genuine 50/50. I initially tipped Baltimore, but forgot that they are the away team. Also Lamar Jackson is 0-2 in the playoffs.

Cleveland @ Pittsburgh was the easiest game to pick, imo. Cleveland barely beat Pittsburgh's backups last week. Also Cleveland have no playoffs experience, whereas Pittsburgh have tonnes.

Buffalo 2-2 Indy
Seattle 4-0 LA Rams
Washington 0-4 Tampa Bay
Tennessee 3-1 Baltimore
New Orleans 4-0 Chicago
Pittsburgh 3-1 Cleveland

The playoffs expanding to 14 teams is a huge tick for me. 6 wildcard games makes it more exciting.

« Last edited by Matt77 on Jan 8th 2021 »

Dropped TD and a Missed FG. You can't have those if you're going to beat the Bills. Colts gonna go home.

Colts miss on their upset.

Rams keep hold of their upset.

Redskins currently trying to pull an upset.

There's talk of Deshaun Watson being picked up by Washington, apparently Watson has asked to be traded as he is unhappy with the way things are being run at Houston. The price is high though, speculation says it will be three number 1's, two number 2's and a player which is rumored to be Matt Ioannidis. Seems too steep for me although Watson is a young quality player.

Another option is Trey Lance but I now think the 49rs will nab him if Washington don't trade up. It will be interesting to see what the Jets do with the number 2 pick of the 2021 draft, I hear they are thinking about moving out of it and building around Darnold. If so there's a possibility of Washington moving to number 2 if the Patriots don't beat them to it.

All Washington need is a decent quarterback and another top reviever to go alongside McLaren and they are Super Bowl contenders. Taylor Heinicke is not the answer although he will make a decent backup. Smith will be gone this year to save Washington 15 million in the cap and I hear riverboat Ron doesn't have no faith in Kyle Allen even though he knows the system. Saving the 15 million in the cap is important as players new contracts need to be sorted this year. Jonathan Allen and Brandon Scheriff for example.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Tua, I get the feeling the team has more confidence in Fitzpatrick. Tua seems reluctant to take chances, I watched game film on him and when given the option of an easy pass for short yardage or a possible long pass that will break a game open appears he always opts for the short pass unlike Fitzpatrick who will take a chance.

Rumour has it Denver are not sold on Drew Lock and Atlanta are shopping Julio Jones and Matt Ryan. I doubt there will be any takers for either of them as both have big contracts.

Another rumour I heard is Matthew Stafford may end up in Washington if Detroit picks up a quarterback in the draft. Cam Newton is also considering moving to another team after his year long stint with the Patriots who are said to be going after Fields in the draft.

Who do you guys think will be the Washington quarterback next year?

I honestly think Heinecke might've showed enough last night to at least get a chance in 2021. If not, I think Stafford, Jimmy G, Cam Newton, and maaaaaybe Matt Ryan are all viable options. They may be in play for Watson but the price will be steep and I believe Watson has a no-trade clause so he would have to approve it. Of these I think Heinecke or Stafford/Jimmy G are the most likely, as they should be pretty cheap. Newton didn't show much as a starter this year so I think he is a last resort type of guy, and probably wouldn't be better than Heinecke.

I did just see that Watson is apparently willing to waive his no-trade clause to go to Miami, and a combo of Tua, pick #3, pick #17, and pick #50 would get it done I think. Which would mean that in essence they are really only giving up Tua and their own first round pick (#17) as #3 was from Houston anyway, and they also have Houston's second round pick at #36. I'm not sure I would give up much more than that though.

Watson signed an extension this year that kicks in in 2022, but IMO it is a decently team-friendly contract for a top-5 QB especially if we assume that 2020/2021 are an anomaly and the salary cap continues to rise afterwards.

« Last edited by steelersrock01 on Jan 10th 2021 »

I can't see the Redskins going after Cam. They had the opportunity to do so when Rivera was first hired, but they passed. And after how bad he looked this year, the most he will be for any team is a backup. Jimmy G is definitely an option for the Redskins, especially since the Niners don't have dead cap with him now. I think the Niners will be going after a QB in the draft, or hoping one of the Top 4 makes it to #12. From there, they can trade Jimmy G for a 2nd or 3rd and resign Beathard to be the bridge (since all of the QBs not named Lawrence could use a year as an understudy).

Darnold and Wentz are also options for the Redskins, but it sounds like the Colts are the frontrunners for Wentz at this point. I'm not sure if Rivera likes Darnold's Game, but he could hire a QB Coach to help him get back on track if they do go after him. The Skins could also go after a QB in the draft, but they'd have to trade up for one of the Top 4. Mac Jones will probably be the only available at #19, Trask in the 2nd or 3rd. Clearly they will be resigning Heinecke, if not currently under contract, if even only to be a bridge.

The Redskins are in a tough spot in the draft. Like everyone in the NFC East not named the Cowboys (since they're needs are really only on the defense and this class is loaded), they really could've used not making the playoffs. Going from #11 to #19 is rough, especially since the Dolphins have #18. Miami is a great spot with both of their picks because of the teams they pick directly in front of, especially if QBs are available at both points. If the Jets keep Darnold and go with OT Sewell as #2, Miami will most definitely get loads of calls from teams looking to jump the Falcons for their choice at Fields or Wilson. And if one of the Top 4 QB Prospects are still available at #18, they could fall back again for someone to jump the Redskins (say the Steelers, Colts, Saints, or Bucs) to nab that player. Miami could literally change the entire landscape of both the NFL Draft and the future of certain NFL Teams if things fall just right.

« Last edited by Warrior13 on Jan 10th 2021 »