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greenspider35 Posted: 14:15 Jun19 2007 Post ID: 1671510
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Alright, this one here's a big one. So, what do you all think about it?

I personally think that people should make the decision to have an abortion if they really want one, and I'll tell you why. When they get the abortion, they are just killing some cells and it's not even a baby yet.

As for the people who are Christian and are not for abortion, it's just a bunch of cells and is not even a living and organic being yet. stop complaining about stuff that is even there.

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sharingansasuke Posted: 14:57 Jun19 2007 Post ID: 1671685
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No. Abortion should not be aloud unless the person was raped. The mother chose to get knocked up aking away the baby's chance to live is wrong. Put it up for an adoption do not killing it. and before you say otherwise yes it is killing it.
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whiplash234 Posted: 15:04 Jun19 2007 Post ID: 1671717
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Greenspider, you're scientific facts are not correct. Cells, are living. They follow Mrs Gren:
Moving
Respirating
Sensitivity

Growth
Reproduction
Excretion
Nutrition

Cells, follow those main principals for life. Anyway, I believe that abortion is wrong, but it can sometimes have some good effects, we can use stem cells from embryo's for stem cell research into a cure for Parkinson's disease or spinal injuries.

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Arsenal#1 Posted: 16:35 Jun19 2007 Post ID: 1672051
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It depends on the situation...
Rape/baby wouldn't survive outside the womb, it should be allowed.

Just remember a baby completly changes a womans life FOREVER! Even if its up for adoption. The pain would be unbelievable. I think its the mothers choice. If shes too young, doesn't feel ready, bad situation...Its a lot tougher than thought by most people.

Abortion has its pain too.
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spideraman99 Posted: 16:45 Jun19 2007 Post ID: 1672082
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I'm not realy sure if it should be. I know that a lot of great and famous people's mothers were thinking about abortion, but decided not to go through with it. We might lose the person who'll cure cancer or something. So, who knows

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BlackNinja Posted: 16:45 Jun19 2007 Post ID: 1672084
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I feel that abortion is the choice of the mother. Let's be fair, we already have enough unwanted kids in the world, we don't need more. It's not fair on the child to live a life of misery because ultimately it was an "accident".
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ressurection666 Posted: 02:40 Jun20 2007 Post ID: 1673329
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I beleive that abortion should be the mothers choice, they have to give birth to the baby and then as stated by others it would be hard to give them up for adoption, baby's make a massive change to your life i am the oldest of 5 children by 7 years and things definately changed when my first sister came along and again with every other brother and sister after that. Some people are not ready to have children and know they would be unable to give them up so abortion seems like the only way to them.
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Simple Theory Posted: 19:00 Jun20 2007 Post ID: 1674939
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There are a huge number of things to take into account when debating the abortion topic:

1. Was the girl banged up or raped? I'm sure that if she acted like slut trash and decided not to have safe intercourse, a lot of people would just say "Oh, well it's her own fault!" If she got raped however, it's a different story and most people would feel sympathetic!

2. When is the abortion taking place? Is it going to be one of those last-ditch abortions that happen right before the baby pops its hear out of the mother? If it is, thats cruel. Go through that extra 10 minutes and don't kill your baby, woman. If it's still a clump of stem cells, then there is nothing wrong physically with killing it because it has no sense of "emotion" yet. People will still bring up the argument that as soon as the sperm hits the egg, it's a human life and thus deserves to live.

3. What is the situation of the mother's health? Her financial background at the moment? Her health- lets say she ends up being 2 months into the pregnancy and the doctors realize that she won't be able to carry this baby for the next 7 months and give birth to it? She's the one who has to suffer in this situation, so wouldn't it be right to let her choose what she wants? Wouldn't it be better for her to live, instead of risking both lives? Lets be serious here.

You should all very well know that nothing is perfectly stable financially for anyone unless they just won the lottery, or inherited a massive amount of money. Jobs come and go, and that landlord just may up the rent when you don't expect it. 2 months into pregnancy, the mother loses her home and her job. Her husband abandons her. What happens then? Can she carry this baby, keep a job, find a home, AND take care of it after its born? If the baby is going to have a horrible life and will only symbolize the mother's suffering, she should abort it.

Now this doesn't pertain to my view on this, but what would you do if you were in that situation? Everyone who advocates terminating the right to an abortion thinks it must be a breeze to carry that baby for 9 months. This means having your abdomen super-sized, adding an extra 7-12 pounds depending on the baby, getting monthly check-ups, and whatever else they have to deal with.

I'm pro choice. This doesn't mean pro-abortion in case anyone wants to pull that argument out of their behinds. This means I support the woman making the choice that she sees will best benefit her for life. Everyone should have that right, shouldn't they?
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Pooly Posted: 06:19 Jun21 2007 Post ID: 1675929
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No I'm not Christian but I say abortion is wrong, personally I feel that the baby is alive as soon as the ovum is fertilised, if the woman doesn't want a child then they should have safe sex, otherwise their gonna wake up one day and say "Oh now I'm pregnant time for me to have an abortion", realy if you don't want a kid then have safe sex, and you should use a comdom if your a man, you'll end up sleeping with a woman you've just met who's just told you shes on the pill, you wake up the next day to find her laughing at you because shes not really on the pill.
Basically abortions wrong and if you don't want a child then use a condom.

« Last edited by Pooly on Jun 21st 2007 »

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ressurection666 Posted: 06:55 Jun21 2007 Post ID: 1675962
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On 21-Jun-2007 Pooly said:No I'm not Christian but I say abortion is wrong, personally I feel that the baby is alive as soon as the ovum is fertilised, if the woman doesn't want a child then they should have safe sex, otherwise their gonna wake up one day and say "Oh now I'm pregnant time for me to have an abortion", realy if you don't want a kid then have safe sex, and you should use a comdom if your a man, you'll end up sleeping with a woman you've just met who's just told you shes on the pill, you wake up the next day to find her laughing at you because shes not really on the pill.
Basically abortions wrong and if you don't want a child then use a condom.
You have a valid point but you also need to take into consideration that no form of contraceptive is 100% effective, but i do agree that the baby is alive from the moment of fertilisation.
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Volke Posted: 07:03 Jun21 2007 Post ID: 1675970
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I have a lot to say on this matter:

If a woman is raped and falls pregnant because of it, she should definately have an abortion.

If the baby will grow up to have mental health problems and will end up in an asylum, then an abortion would put it out if its future misery in advance.

If the baby's life will turn out to be hell on earth, then an abortion might be the best choice.

If the woman is a prostitute then she should suffer for being a loose b!tch anyway.

If the parents of the child don't want it, then it's up to them.

If a woman falls pregnant and splits up with the father, and the father still wants the child, she shouldn't have an abortion.

Personally, I think it's the mother's choice. All these hardcore, all-out going Christians should shove their anti-abortion signs up their @$$ to be honest. It's not their descision and it's not their problem, so they should stay the hell out of it. Besides, all these Christian ideas are very similar to Nazi beliefs, so they should be the ones ashamed. In the name of God? Pah, more like in the name of Hitler these people are getting involved in matters that don't involve them.

I don't mean to offend anyone with this post, but if you are one of the above mentioned Christians, then re-consider and don't take your religion so seriously.


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Arsenal#1 Posted: 07:37 Jun21 2007 Post ID: 1675997
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On 21-Jun-2007 Pooly said:No I'm not Christian but I say abortion is wrong, personally I feel that the baby is alive as soon as the ovum is fertilised, if the woman doesn't want a child then they should have safe sex, otherwise their gonna wake up one day and say "Oh now I'm pregnant time for me to have an abortion", realy if you don't want a kid then have safe sex, and you should use a comdom if your a man, you'll end up sleeping with a woman you've just met who's just told you shes on the pill, you wake up the next day to find her laughing at you because shes not really on the pill.
Basically abortions wrong and if you don't want a child then use a condom.
What woman is going to say shes on the pill when shes not!

Condoms break. No method of contraception is 100% relaible.
The Pill isn't the answer to everything. It can cause pain/bloating/and such, and affect fertility in later life.

I see that nearly everyone here is saying that it would be the womans fault for getting knocked-up. Men play a part in it too.
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Volke Posted: 07:44 Jun21 2007 Post ID: 1676003
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On 21-Jun-2007 Arsenal#1 said:What woman is going to say shes on the pill when shes not!

Condoms break. No method of contraception is 100% relaible.
The Pill isn't the answer to everything. It can cause pain/bloating/and such, and affect fertility in later life.

I see that nearly everyone here is saying that it would be the womans fault for getting knocked-up. Men play a part in it too.
The condoms that break are the free crappy ones they give out public places. The best ones are the ones they give out in teenage advice centres, health centres and the like. They never break unless they're out of date.


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imaloony8.0 Posted: 08:58 Jun21 2007 Post ID: 1676078
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Here's the thing, an abortion is ending another human life, even though it may just be a fetus, it never gets a chance to live, if you get raped and have a baby, and NEED to have an abortion, then by all means, but you also have to option of puting the kid up for adoption at an orphanage. But if you just got 'knocked up' by your boyfriend, then have the stupid baby, if you didn't want it, you should have stayed abstinant, used a condom, used the pill, or whatever, if you didn't want to have a baby, if you get pregnant, you only have yourself to blame (Unless you were raped) PERIOD.

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Simple Theory Posted: 14:14 Jun21 2007 Post ID: 1676907
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One way to make abortions a lot less appealing are to force immense amounts of paperwork and huge fees for the procedure/pill/whatever they use for them, if the girl wasn't raped.

But this also has problems because someone who wants one can always lie about it. Abortion isn't really an OPEN topic for discussion, but it's a good one, because it's either pro-choice or anti-abortion! This would be a great topic for Policy debates. Not too great for Lincoln-Douglass though, because the people against it have a huge obstacle to face when presented with all the different scenarios.
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Komodo Posted: 06:27 Jun22 2007 Post ID: 1678632
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It doesn't seem morally right, but in the long run, it may be in the woman/girl's, and also, the baby's best interests.

If a teen gets impregnated, and they and their peers are certain they won't be able to cope with the responsibility of a baby, abortion makes sense. It also makes sense for victims of rape, and for those who have been taken advantage of, or left alone to deal with the baby alone.

If someone didn't think ahead, but is a mature adult, and simply have changed their mind, then too bad. It is still a life, and there is a difference between killing the baby in development if the person who is going to have it never wanted it, and doing so just because someone changed their mind. The baby should be put up for adoption upon birth.


It is a complicated matter.
...
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super craig Posted: 12:01 Jun22 2007 Post ID: 1679169
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On 21-Jun-2007 Volke said:I have a lot to say on this matter:

If a woman is raped and falls pregnant because of it, she should definately have an abortion.

If the baby will grow up to have mental health problems and will end up in an asylum, then an abortion would put it out if its future misery in advance.

If the baby's life will turn out to be hell on earth, then an abortion might be the best choice.

If the woman is a prostitute then she should suffer for being a loose b!tch anyway.

If the parents of the child don't want it, then it's up to them.

If a woman falls pregnant and splits up with the father, and the father still wants the child, she shouldn't have an abortion.

Personally, I think it's the mother's choice. All these hardcore, all-out going Christians should shove their anti-abortion signs up their @$$ to be honest. It's not their descision and it's not their problem, so they should stay the hell out of it. Besides, all these Christian ideas are very similar to Nazi beliefs, so they should be the ones ashamed. In the name of God? Pah, more like in the name of Hitler these people are getting involved in matters that don't involve them.

I don't mean to offend anyone with this post, but if you are one of the above mentioned Christians, then re-consider and don't take your religion so seriously.
About the prostitutes what about those that are forced to do it? Not many do it because they want to, a fair number are lured to other countries with promises of a better life, only then to have their passports stolen and what not and forced to do it, with the knowledge that if they don't they probabley end up dead. Surely then that is no better than rape? Then they should be allowed to have an abortion.

« Last edited by super craig on Jun 22nd 2007 »
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Shadow_Lord Posted: 13:26 Jun22 2007 Post ID: 1679417
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I say it's up to the mother. Counter-arguments to arguments against this:



"It's her fault in the first place." - Well, first of all there's the rape scenario. That's obvious. But furthermore, you're assuming that people will always make sensible, rational decisions 24/7. But that's obviously not true. We all do things that seemed fine at the time but we regret later.

Let's take another scenario. Let's say a person jumps down a well for a dare. They thought they had a way to get out, but when they got down there realised it wasn't going to work. You come across them calling for help. You ask how they got down there in the first place. They tell you. Do you say, "Well, you should've known better in the first place!" and walk on? I'm willing to bet you wouldn't. You'd find a way to help them.

But this is basically the same as abortion - someone's done something they regret, and now want to get out of the situation. You shouldn't refuse to help them simply because they should've known better. It's... well, spiteful, really, when you think about it.

"You're denying the baby a chance at life." - The main problem I have with this statement is that it assumes that that life will be a happy life. It might not be. For example, if the child has a serious mental or physical disorder, it might be kinder to not force them to suffer. Obviously this area overlaps a lot with euthanasia. Also, as others have mentioned, the financial situation of the parents should be born in mind.



The other main issue to discuss, I think, is, of course, when exactly a foetus is considered 'alive'. Over the years, philosophers have placed this anywhere from conception to birth. Persoanlly, I'm not sure. But from my point of view, it doesn't actually have much bearing; my reasons are, to me, sitll valid no matter whether the foetus is considered alive or dead.
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Arsenal#1 Posted: 17:38 Jun22 2007 Post ID: 1680166
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On 21-Jun-2007 Volke said:The condoms that break are the free crappy ones they give out public places. The best ones are the ones they give out in teenage advice centres, health centres and the like. They never break unless they're out of date.
97% of condoms are fine! Its that 3% that cause pregnancy. No condom is 100% relaible. No matter how much it cost.

And still I see people constanly blame the woman.

« Last edited by Arsenal#1 on Jun 22nd 2007 »
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Komodo Posted: 18:19 Jun22 2007 Post ID: 1680305
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I'm not blaming the girl Arsenal. I think that if a girl is raped they really do deserve to have an abortion if they choose.
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