Meaning of life?

On 28-Jun-2007 Fwank said:

Haha, wouldn't we need to define the meaning of a cat or a dog or a rock then? I sense a loophole =D!

While I don't really know what to believe about the actual meaning of our existence (there's also the issue of you all not being real; I'm a huge brain-in-a-vat supporter... sort of), I do enjoy the Buddhist/Taoist explanation which involved reincarnation (or was it just Taoist? Forgot):

In essence, there are six incarnations (as in things other than human, not that we only exist six times or we can exist six times at once, though the later sounds awesome) we can take form of. There's a system (karma) that keeps track of our deeds (cause) and issues a punishment/reward (effect). While this may seem like a system that judges things as right/wrong, karma merely returns whats given. Anyway.

The six forms are part of reincarnation, and the goal of it is to reach awakening, which relieves one the need to be a part of the cycle as a result (like Neo not bound by the laws of Matrix, for instance?) Long story short, human is the third one down (organisms non-human is the fourth one down). We're here to reach enlightenment, and... the explanation as to why we're here is vague as usual; basically we're here because we want to be here, once we let go of our desires and... stuff, we'll go back to where we came. Makes more sense if my English was better I guess.

That's Buddhist. Taoist's is similar to the American Indians beliefs before the colonists got a hold of them.

And you English is near perfect. That?s about as clear as this subject could possibly be

Also, just because you can watch the Matrix trilogy over and over doesn?t mean you should *turns off your TV*, lol.

I?m kidding. I?m interested in ?how? (for lack of a better word) we exist as well; but this topic is about why so I guess I?ll save it for another time

Anyway, to sum up the on-topic part of this post, that post doesn?t really cover why we exist. Which, really, if you think about it, is a hard thing to define. As said, we don?t even know how we exist. And if we don?t exist in the form we think we do, how can we define why we exist?

lol I just realized only the last sentence of my post was relevant to the topic, my bad.

That's too complicated man~ *insert "I think therefore I am" argument*

But following my beliefs of that whole cycle of reincarnation, and "we're here because we want to be here"... The explanation of how we came to be in the first place (i.e. what got us into the whole reincarnation mess to begin with, disregarding previous incarnations which would only sum up how we came to be what we are today) is rather vague, but it boils down to us wanting to be here.

There's a reference made in most religious texts regarding us giving in to temptation/desire/whatever as a whole, which resulted in us being here now, trapped in an infinite cycle of desire and temptation (or whatever that damn apple on that damn tree was meant to represent; fruit of something? lol @ my failing @ reading comprehension)

As for why we're still here, the term "because we want to be" refers to attachments and any debts we must pay as billed from a previous life or lives before this one.

For the record, once you reach the highest point of the cycle you're free from the cycle and back to where you came from, and what the heck you do there is undoubtedly incomprehensible considering if you know, you'd probably be there by now =D

On 28-Jun-2007 SPV999 said:

Well, for people that believe that, there is no purpose in life: you are the result of nature gone wrong and your life has no more meaning then that of a dog or a cat... or a rock for that matter.

Sounds harsh, but you have to admit it makes sense.

A Buddhist, who does not believe in a deity, would be inclined to disagree with you there. Buddhism is a religion which provides a clear "meaning" or "purpose" to life. This "purpose" is to reach Nirvana, the state of enlightenment, which can only be reached through great mental discipline and through moral behaviour (which incidentally is why Buddhism is the religion I most respect, as many aspects of their way of life make sense and seem right to me even if I don't believe in Nirvana). However, Buddhists do not believe in any god, and therefore believe that no-one created us. However, their lives have a great deal of meaning.

(If my knowledge of Buddhism is slightly off, please forgive me. I was taught this stuff about a year ago by a completely inept teacher who couldn't control my class.)

« Last edited by Catharsis on Jul 4th 2007 »

About the No god thing,I think Buddhists do actually believe iun god,It's just the place you know it from or point of view. For istance, India was were buddhist started, but a monk(Very short tempered) walked all the way to China and introduced Buddahism.
Also buddah was also said to be a prince,But he walked into a street of poor people, so he decided to join them. I've also heard that when he was born he could walk straight away or something like that.

(Now for the god bit)

I'm not sure how you say it in Eglish but i think her name is Kuan yin in english.She was a princess,She had a life of cinderella(Sorta) but she gave her rich life away for a decent life.Her dad was king of China,He banned any religion,Meaning buddahism is rare then.But as she grew older she began to have vision,going to heaven and down.She eventually got stabbed in the head by a enemy intruder.She luckily survivedand that's where she began her life as goddess.a Few years on,Her arm was accidentaly chopped off.She grew several arms in place.

They're just tall tails and various other glorifications to the idols that their supporters (the ones who didn't actually follow him around and meditate with him) said, or even heard... one thing led to another, etc.

The term "Buddha" collectively refers to those who have reached enlightenment, Guan Shi Yin (spelling mistake for sure) is one such individual, along with said prince (who supposedly started it all, if not, at least most well known of all).

As for believing in a God: not so much a separate sentient being that's capable of governing our actions, but the belief of higher powers (karma and the sort) is pretty common and comparable to an omnipotent, omniscient God. The coined phrase is "there is a Buddha within ourselves", almost literally referring to the common human potential of reaching enlightenment.

But the figures you have mentioned are idolized by the general public who call themselves Buddhist (i.e. people who aren't monks and who don't devote themselves to reach Bhodi), but this is more a cultural tradition than it is part of the religious teachings: much like how we idolize ancient figures. Guan Yu of the three kingdoms dynasty was one such figure, he's idolized for his honor and valor as well as his bravery.

Since a god is defined as sentient being/force, and Buddhists don't believe in any such thing, Buddhists don't believe in any sort of god. Guan Yin, dm, is more like a saint than a god.

PS. It's off-topic, but Fwank, there's no Three Kingdoms Dynasty. It's the Three Kingdoms Period. During this period, three seperate dynasties claimed the throne during this period: the Wei dynasty (founded by Cao Pi, although the Kingdom of Wei was founded by his father, Cao Cao, who was posthumously declared Emperor by Cao Pi), the Wu dyansty (founded by Sun Quan, although the Wu kingdom was founded by Sun Jian and expanded on by his eldest son Sun Ce, before being passed on to his second son Sun Quan), and finally the Shu dyansty, founded by Liu Bei. The period ended when the land was unified under the Jin dynasty, founded by Sima Yan, after they overthrew the Cao family of Wei, having already conquered Shu, and conquered the already crumbling Wu. Just thought I'd mention that.

You know what I mean D=

And I'm familiar with ancient Chinese history, just not in English D=

And they acknowledge the existence of a higher governing power, or creator of beings, but they don't idolize/worship it for it doesn't amount to anything; they'd seek it for guidance like they would follow the teachings of any Buddha, but who the heck knows how to communicate with something so out of touch with mortals anyway?

They described that the only way to communicate with God is through your dreams.

Here's my view on the meaning of life: We learn, we apply what we learn, we die.

I don't see the point to living if all we do is die in the end. Everything that we do is for naught in the end. And don't give me that "But you did have a purpose in life. You made the world a better place" crap. The world would be better without any of us. All we do is add to the pollution and destroy our world faster than we can help it.

I forgot:Kuan Yin created her own style of buddahism(i think....) She made different types of rules but under buddahism.For instance, I think Kuan yin's style allows you to eat meat(Correct me if i'm wrong) apart from beef as when her father was king,He was possesed by a devil.When he died he was sent to hell,Kuan yin set out to find him in which she did.But when she Walked with her father to the god of hell,Her father finally relises that he put everyone in tyranny.He soon said he wanted to be a Ox.From then on kuan yin did not allow people to eat beef as she thought she was eating her dad.

But since i'm chinese,Whcih my parents believe in the kuan yin style of religion(very badly),I know very little about buddahism.^_^

By the way: it was the 3 kingdoms era.

Correction: Kuan Yin didn't set any rules, she was, like Shadow said, a saint. And as I've previously mentioned, it isn't really considered a religion much more than you would call worshiping a role model (but then religion's essentially the same thing... sorta)

And the meat eating thing: I recall old people not eating beef because cows would help them in the fields and stuff... they generally didn't eat any animal that were helpful (so chickens and pigs weren't spared). The whole Kuan Yin thing could've stemmed from that, because it sounds rather odd for Kuan Yin not to preach vegetarianism if she knew about reincarnation.

I have already mentioned some of the beliefs of Buddhism in a nutshell, you could google up on some info (or just ask if you have any questions; the books are all within reach here at my side)

dm: Martin Luther split from the Roman Catholic church and created a new set of rules for his own Protestant church. Does this also make him a god, according to Christians?

Xtreme Gamer: NO. Buddhism states that the only way to acheive enlightenment is though meditation.

Factor: An interesting view. And one I'm forced to agree with in many ways. Still, I figure that while we're here we may as well have fun.

PS. Era, period. Same thing. Well, not if you're talking paleontology, but we're not. We're talking history.

Um, Shadow Lord, that's a yes to my statement. Definition of meditation;

Buddhism & Hinduism- To train, calm, or empty the mind, often by achieving an altered state, as by focusing on a single object.

Now, a dream is an altered state, and your mind can focus on various things while in a dream.

On 06-Jul-2007 Xtreme gamer said:

Um, Shadow Lord, that's a yes to my statement. Definition of meditation;

Buddhism & Hinduism- To train, calm, or empty the mind, often by achieving an altered state, as by focusing on a single object.

Now, a dream is an altered state, and your mind can focus on various things while in a dream.

So your logic goes something along the lines of: Meditation can achieve an altered state of mind, a dream is an altered state of mind, therefore meditation causes dreams?

Ever tried meditation? It's very different to a dream. I would know, having done it myself on multiple occasions. Taking drugs induces "an altered state of mind", does that mean that taking drugs causes dreams?

Besides, Buddhism does not believe in a god. Buddhism believes in a higher power, but not a sentient, omnipotent being. I believe it's more like a force, impersonal and unthinking. You can't "communicate with it" as such.

Since deleting Morphy's post means Shadow's post doesn't make sense, so I'm getting rid of that one too =S

Adding to the discussion while we're talking about Buddhism: our purpose here in life as human beings, in consistency with my previous claims, is to ultimately free yourself from reincarnation and karma; a bit like other religions trying to relieve suffering by seeking aid from higher powers, only they aim to condition themselves to endure the sufferings rather than ending them, acknowledging them as their "homework" while they're alive.

On 06-Jul-2007 Catharsis said:

So your logic goes something along the lines of: Meditation can achieve an altered state of mind, a dream is an altered state of mind, therefore meditation causes dreams?

Ever tried meditation? It's very different to a dream. I would know, having done it myself on multiple occasions. Taking drugs induces "an altered state of mind", does that mean that taking drugs causes dreams?

Besides, Buddhism does not believe in a god. Buddhism believes in a higher power, but not a sentient, omnipotent being. I believe it's more like a force, impersonal and unthinking. You can't "communicate with it" as such.

Let me fill you in on something, and, please don't laugh, because it's a fact.

The Jamaicans smoke marijuana, a drug, to achieve a spiritual connection with God. That's what the saying getting high really meant, ascension to an altered state of the mind.

That's their interpretation; they don't really know any better. (and yeah most people pretty much know them for that... and are pretty familiar with the origins of the phrase etc...)

You're not totally wrong about sleep/dreams/meditation though: what you need to realize is that in sleep our brain waves are different than the ones that we emit while we're awake, and to meditate is to simulate that while you're still conscious.

On 07-Jul-2007 Xtreme gamer said:

Let me fill you in on something, and, please don't laugh, because it's a fact.

The Jamaicans smoke marijuana, a drug, to achieve a spiritual connection with God. That's what the saying getting high really meant, ascension to an altered state of the mind.

It may well be a fact. It's completely irrelevant, though.

On 07-Jul-2007 Fwank said:

That's their interpretation; they don't really know any better. (and yeah most people pretty much know them for that... and are pretty familiar with the origins of the phrase etc...)

You're not totally wrong about sleep/dreams/meditation though: what you need to realize is that in sleep our brain waves are different than the ones that we emit while we're awake, and to meditate is to simulate that while you're still conscious.

"what you need to realize is that in sleep our brain waves are different than the ones that we emit while we're awake, and to meditate is to simulate that while you're still conscious."

Not necessarily. I've heard of several purposes for meditation, including stabilising chi, clearing the mind to allow for clearer thinking and simple relaxation. There is no one right reason for meditation.

I know no one actually sits down and thinks "I'm going to change my brain wave patterns!" but I'm saying that's literally what happens when one meditates (or at least when the conditions are met). Psychics claim that this is comparable to their ESP; where their brain is constantly in tune with the waves of the universe, hence how they hax to know so much (pardon my wording)

off topic for sure - There are more practical ways to stabilize (or just manipulate) chi rather than meditate; most people can't exactly control their flow of chi by simply meditating.