Zeitgeist movie-Read Disclaimers before viewing.

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/main.htm

Disclaimer:This may disturb you and destroy some of you're core beliefs!

Another Disclaimer:this movie as 3 parts, Religious,9/11, and a part called"don't mind the men behind the curtain".the movie is 2 hours don't complain.

So this Movie as been talked about a ton on other forums i am on.And i wanted to now what you think.

My Say:I believe it all(i am not easily persuaded):I was an atheist even before watching this.i was blown away by the second part.Third part:my jaw dropped.

I've watched the first part. I will watch the others and return to comment, but if I stare at the video for too long, my eyes will hurt, so for now, I am just commenting on part 1.

The first part can be summarized in two sentences: "The Christian belief has many similarities with other beliefs. Because of this, and the fact that those other beliefs are false, Chrstianity must be false." You can sugar coat it in as many ways as you like, but that is all that it says. It draws many comparisons and finds many similarities between the worship of Jesus and the worsihp of pagan sun gods. But none of that matters at all unless you accept that those similarities disprove both of them.

Let's pretend I write two stories. In both, I describe everything - literally every single thing - that has occured or existed from the beginning of time to the year 2000 B.C. I describe everything with perfect accuracy. I know this is concievably impossible, but just imagine a did it in two seperate stories, each time with absolute accuracy. These stories are similar in literally quadrillions of ways. Fair enough?

In the first story, I observe the year 2008. I say that, in the year 2008, the American government is led by pinecones. Seeing as we live in 2008, we can safely say that the assertion is false. The American government is not led by pinecone, therefore the story is fictional, even though it contains massive amounts of perfect truth. It is still false - we should not listen to pinecones today.

Now, because of the quadrillions of similarities between the first and second stories, we can safely presume that if the first is untrue, so is the second. True or false? False. The second story says that the American government in 2008 is run by American human beings. Even though these two stories share quadrillions of perfect similarities, they are not the same story. And the falsehoods in the first do not disprove the second, because the second does not share those falsehoods.

Do you agree?

Okay, now lets say I write two more stories. One contains complete and total nonsense. It says that chickens are born from human fingertips every seven seconds. It says that trees actually grow down from the sky, and that we are not being pulled to the ground by gravity but being pushed by lemons. Totally ridiculous and absurd nonsense. It does not contain a single word of truth. Literally all of it is false.

The second story is exactly the same, with one change. It shares all of the same absurdities. But on the last page, it says "Human beings breath oxygen." Do all of the absurdities discount the fact that we breath oxygen? No, of course not. We still breath oxygen. Even though this second story is comparable to total nonsense, it still contains truth, rendering it as a different story.

Point being that, regardless of how many similarities Christianity shares with mythology, Christianity is not disproved by the falsehoods of mythology. While it is similar, some hidden truth in the text of the Bible could still potentially seperate it from mythology entirely. For example, if we end up burning in hell for our sins for all of eternity, that means that there is truth in the Bible. This possibility cannot be discounted by similarities with myths.

Again, I will return later with comments on the second and third parts.

I'm lost.

OP said he was an atheist BEFORE watching it, leading me to think OP means "I'm now somewhat religious", which means the film seeks to make people have a religious outlook on life...

What?

Great film by the way, I enjoyed the George Carlin segment.

Edit: just finished the film, so deleted some of the questions... also, vastly entertaining film was vastly entertaining.

« Last edited by Fwank on Apr 28th 2008 »

I think the OP meant he was an atheist even before watching the film, Fwank.

I first had this moved to the TV & Film board, but realized it belonged here much more after watching it for 20 min, so I moved it back.

I just watched the whole thing with subtitles in my language to be sure to understand everything of it...and I think this should be watched by everyone.

This is probably even the best discussion that will be made here ever, therefore I will participate and share my opinions, even knowing they will be hard and offend people. Also do not reply nor comment on me here if you didn't bother to watch the whole thing.

Dun like it? Then go read posts in the Forum Games section or Pokemon Section and get outta here before you read further!

First about part 1:

Many of this is new to me and I was surprised by some stuff and didn't knew about most. I knew the Bible and Koran where pretty much the same and based on the same stuff, but never knew it went that far and global to so many cultures.

At the end I never had much respect for most religions, cuz most have a past of war or other inhuman activities towards humans.

Only believes I ever respected are the Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses, cuz even if it's based on false believes, yet they NEVER were involved into war and also the only two I know who never did.

But other then the history behind things nothing new was brought to my attention with Part 1.

Part 2:

About what happen in New York and the real truth behind it are not new, as we seen in Fahrenheit 9/11. It just adds extra elements and enforces what was already known.

YET this is still shocking and even more now then before watching this video, this makes me hate the American system more then ever and this all indeed is NOT any difference of what Nazis did/tried.

Nazis are the bad guys? Why? For killing innocent people like the "good guys" (America) did as well back then and still does only on a larger scale and more discreet then Die Endl�sung that failed at the end?

(on a side note: did ya know that the American government knew what happen to the Jews in the early days of WWII, yet they didn't want them and they were unwelcome in the USA? ...EXCEPT for the big artists, writers, scientists...etc. Those they did allow in the USA with pleasure then and gave visum/papers ASAP)

Yes America is the hero always indeed, they are they good guys for sure, of course they are, cuz they won by doing the very same the Nazis and many generations before them did, manipulate people for their own good all for money and power at the costs of innocent people who are dumb and dunno anything.

I'm dumb to btw, cuz I know i can't do anything against it, just like most people. But it sickens me that those who can do something about it rather join in and participate in these sick plans.

This makes me wonder what the American people really are proud of and if they actually realize what their nation stands for all these generations?

That all brings us to Part 3 as well in the meantime.

So seriously...are you as American really proud of your country now after knowing these fact?

Do you dare to say yes to be part and proud of a Nazi state?

Of course most didn't choose for it to be there, but I still know that most will blindly swallow the propaganda of their awesome country and say this is all bullshit what they/we tell about this big nation that is blessed by God (I refer to Part 1).

It also makes me mad each time that for example I posted a video tribute about another one of America's inhumane sick acts (Hiroshima - Nagasaki) on video boards like Youtube, that there are always a lot of morons who come with the events of Pearl Harbor, while this once more proves that what happen there is indeed very sad and dramatic, but not what Japan did, but what the Americans did to themselves and is no excuse whatsoever and the government deserved it back then...just pity that they were not the ones who died, but those soldiers did who didn't knew any better then serve a Nazi state in the believe they were doing a good thing...yet they died for nothing!

Also wow at the education rates of the "most powerfull country" on earth...

Let's just hope that the smart Europeans know better then and not be so naive, though they ARE cuz they follow the USA like a dog follows his boss with a bone in his hand.

But at least there is "some" hope then that maybe future generations will disagree with this "big plan" aka "Die Endl�sung Auf Der Welt" how I rather call it.

It also troubles me to see that about the chip implant...as they indeed slowly but sure implement these things into our system. It even happens in Europe already (at least the electronic identity card thing)

I bet that the European GPS system (Galileo) is all part of that as well, it's just obvious.

(This officially my longest post on SC eva) >_>

« Last edited by Youkou on Apr 28th 2008 »

On 23-Apr-2008 Chaotic Phantom said:

I've watched the first part. I will watch the others and return to comment, but if I stare at the video for too long, my eyes will hurt, so for now, I am just commenting on part 1.

The first part can be summarized in two sentences: "The Christian belief has many similarities with other beliefs. Because of this, and the fact that those other beliefs are false, Chrstianity must be false." You can sugar coat it in as many ways as you like, but that is all that it says. It draws many comparisons and finds many similarities between the worship of Jesus and the worsihp of pagan sun gods. But none of that matters at all unless you accept that those similarities disprove both of them.

Let's pretend I write two stories. In both, I describe everything - literally every single thing - that has occured or existed from the beginning of time to the year 2000 B.C. I describe everything with perfect accuracy. I know this is concievably impossible, but just imagine a did it in two seperate stories, each time with absolute accuracy. These stories are similar in literally quadrillions of ways. Fair enough?

In the first story, I observe the year 2008. I say that, in the year 2008, the American government is led by pinecones. Seeing as we live in 2008, we can safely say that the assertion is false. The American government is not led by pinecone, therefore the story is fictional, even though it contains massive amounts of perfect truth. It is still false - we should not listen to pinecones today.

Now, because of the quadrillions of similarities between the first and second stories, we can safely presume that if the first is untrue, so is the second. True or false? False. The second story says that the American government in 2008 is run by American human beings. Even though these two stories share quadrillions of perfect similarities, they are not the same story. And the falsehoods in the first do not disprove the second, because the second does not share those falsehoods.

Do you agree?

Okay, now lets say I write two more stories. One contains complete and total nonsense. It says that chickens are born from human fingertips every seven seconds. It says that trees actually grow down from the sky, and that we are not being pulled to the ground by gravity but being pushed by lemons. Totally ridiculous and absurd nonsense. It does not contain a single word of truth. Literally all of it is false.

The second story is exactly the same, with one change. It shares all of the same absurdities. But on the last page, it says "Human beings breath oxygen." Do all of the absurdities discount the fact that we breath oxygen? No, of course not. We still breath oxygen. Even though this second story is comparable to total nonsense, it still contains truth, rendering it as a different story.

Point being that, regardless of how many similarities Christianity shares with mythology, Christianity is not disproved by the falsehoods of mythology. While it is similar, some hidden truth in the text of the Bible could still potentially seperate it from mythology entirely. For example, if we end up burning in hell for our sins for all of eternity, that means that there is truth in the Bible. This possibility cannot be discounted by similarities with myths.

Again, I will return later with comments on the second and third parts.

But the American government is led by pinecones...watch part 2 and 3 and you'll see for yourself

I saw a thread about this on another forum I used, and alot of people in the thread bashed it for its innacuracy, and biased views, so I didn't bother watching it.

Ah so you just take what some people say as opinion on a forum without watching something yourself so you can judge fairly on what something is really about?

And how about all those politicians and leaders who are inaccurate and can't or refuse to backup some events they are involved in?

If they don't make sense and don't tell us how things "really" are, then why wouldn't we be allowed to make our own conclusions then and try to find the answers they don't wanna give?

« Last edited by Youkou on May 1st 2008 »

On 01-May-2008 Youkou said:

Ah so you just take what some people say as opinion on a forum without watching something yourself so you can judge fairly on what something is really about?

And how about all those politicians and leaders who are inaccurate and can't or refuse to backup some events they are involved in?

If they don't make sense and don't tell us how things "really" are, then why wouldn't we be allowed to make our own conclusions then and try to find the answers they don't wanna give?

Firstly, i cant really be arsed to watch a movie that long, unless i actually want to, and in this case,I dont.

Also, if something is biased, thats not really an opinion, somone saying what they believe to be true without the other side of the story is biased, it either is, or isn't.

besides, therewere a good 30 + posts on that thread, and most of them mentioned biast views and inacuracy, the rest mentioned nothing about its content as a whole, but just how they laughed at it, thought it intersting etc.

That's good for them...but they aren't us, so maybe see what we posted so far then and tell us what we are wrong with.

And if you do, then at least do watch it so you can make some sense or don't bother to post cuz you dunno what we are on about and what it is about in the first place then.

Don't judge the book by its cover

« Last edited by Youkou on May 1st 2008 »

On 01-May-2008 Youkou said:

That's good for them...but they aren't us, so maybe see what we posted so far then and tell us what we are wrong with.

And if you do, then at least do watch it so you can make some sense or don't bother to post cuz you dunno what we are on about and what it is about in the first place then.

Don't judge the book by its cover

I coul say the same to you.
you seem to think I know nothing about the movie, which infact you have no idea whatsoever as to wether I do or not.

You told it yourself that you didn't saw it and won't bother to see it either.

I DID see it more then once now and even watched EndGame: Blueprint For Global Enslavement, so I know damn well what exactly I'm on about.

What you are saying and doing is no different then as if someone would make a forum suggestion topic with a lot of different suggestions and you reply in there "I didn't bother to read the first post and don't plan to either, but I know it's a forum suggestion and see that most people disagree with it, so therefore i don't like the suggestion and vote against it"

« Last edited by Youkou on May 1st 2008 »

On 01-May-2008 nicko 9000 said:

I saw a thread about this on another forum I used, and alot of people in the thread bashed it for its innacuracy, and biased views, so I didn't bother watching it.

Admin fury aside, I strongly recommend watching it, it'll be one of the more entertaining 2 hours of your life. I still think it's a vastly entertaining film, and the way it was executed was rather impressive.

I don't think it's worth passing up a half way decent film just because some thread with less than thirty odd posts containing lifeless posters who assumed the position of absolute authority of your life told you its not worth watching. Conversely, you should probably consider the oceans worth of forums I know who praise this film on a regular basis (in spite of the fact that they're not about the film's accuracy...)

Whether or not it is the "truth" is largely irrelevant; despite this film being a documentary - in which case one would assume that it would have to contain a large amount of truth in order to qualify being classified as such - the fact remains documentaries are out to prove a perspective, and this film does it diligently. Documentaries aim to be informative from a certain point-of-view; there's no such thing as an "unbiased documentary".

tl;dr - good film >< ignore trolls and watch it

This vid is crazy. Like you said, I was an Atheist before this, but now there's no way I'm ever even thinking about having a Religion.

I've watched the first part, and I was blown away by the amount of rubbish contained in it. This movie is pseudohistory [first part at least], and is accepted by virtually no respected scholar. The movie draws all of its information from a handful of sources, which makes it even more suspicious.

It there's any dependency, it's reversed. The film doesn't tell you that most of our information concerning these copycat figures postdate Christianity [150 A.D.]. The only one which predates it is Horus/Osirus. We even have evidence that Roman Mithra COPIED Christianity!

Osirus never was crucified, nor was he resurrected. He was cut up into thirteen pieces and scattered over the earth. Isis later found twelve out of the thirteen and Osirus was 'resurrected' as god of the underworld. It's a zombification, not resurrection.

For another example, Mithra was born of a rock [I suppose a rock is a virgin?], and attended by passerby [we don't know who - but they assume it's shepherds?]. He never died, he killed a bull. There is no resurrection story either.

Most of these parallels don't even exist! People are reading their agenda into it. The Bible never mentions the date of birth of Jesus, nor that there were three and only three wise men.

It strikes me as funny when they only listed around three sources for Jesus' existence and tried to dismiss it with an appeal to Chrestus [which was a title back then]. Josephus isn't a forgery, at best there is one disputed passage. But Zeitgeist never mentions that Josephus mentions Jesus TWICE. The James passage of which is genuine.

Tacitus and Suetonius do use Chrestus, but obviously in context they refer to Jesus Christ.


« Last edited by TheoLOLgian on Jul 15th 2008 »