The Existence of God [Discussion Topic: See First Post]

superman4u: That is an amazing story. I feel the same way about God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.

I don't think there is a better story here so far.

Well of 67 pages of a discussion I imagine there are a few other stories here that could compare.

Suffering is a result of sin and our disobedience from the Lord. It is not His doing. But He allows it show us the pain sin causes, so that we do not run to sin but ran back to Him. Consequences of our own actions, discipline of a loving Father.

I will be honest this bit of text bothers me. You say suffering is caused by sinning and being disobedient to the Lord yet also say that the Lord is not bringing the suffering he is simply allowing it. You say he allows suffering to show us the pain sin causes.

First I find it weird that sinning and being disobedient to the Lord brings about suffering that is in no way the doing of the Lord. Just some coincidence which is simply allowed.

Secondly the Lord allows this suffering because it apparently shows us the pain of sin. Suffering is allowed to make us shy from sin and turn towards the Lord.

Thirdly you say Consequences of our actions, discipline of a loving Father.

For the first two it is simply the wording and logic behind what is said. However for the third I find it odd that people suffering are at fault because it means they have sinned and have been disobedient. People suffering is rather general. People are inherently at fault and must suffer.

Now I am an atheist, I do not believe in God nor do I wonder about a god's existence. I ponder on the IF there was a god but I do so in the way you would look at history and wonder what would have happened if THIS happened instead of THAT. I also find religion and interesting subject to look at and study, I don't mind talking to people about their religious views (provided they aren't narrow minded and incredibly ignorant) and having a debate with them. A friendly debate mind you, I am open to people attempting to convince me there is a God but generally it really ends with people trying to disprove my objections towards their religion and beliefs. That all being said I will try to do some debating and hopefully those who are more religious and know their religion well will be able to debate back.

So to both superman4u and Warrior13 since I know you are both Christians and firm believers I will start with you.

So supposedly your big guy upstairs created everything and all that. He creates man in his image. He then proceeds to make 10 rules to follow, he gives man 7 terrible sins, and he also gives man free will. ( not necessarily in that order) He tells man that if they break any of these 10 rules of commit on of the 7 sins that when they die they will be damned to hell where they will be tortured for all of eternity. One big thing that I find really odd when looking at all this is that God gave man FREE WILL but if man CHOSE to not follow a rule or commit one of the 7 sins then God PUNISHED them for it.
It seems contradictory. Like "hey I am giving you free will, ok? But if you choose to do something that I don't like then I will punish you by torturing you for all of eternity."
This is one of the many concepts that I feel is kinda flawed. So I would like to hear the responses of two strong Christians about this.

nightmare2 said:

So supposedly your big guy upstairs created everything and all that. He creates man in his image. He then proceeds to make 10 rules to follow, he gives man 7 terrible sins, and he also gives man free will. ( not necessarily in that order) He tells man that if they break any of these 10 rules of commit on of the 7 sins that when they die they will be damned to hell where they will be tortured for all of eternity. One big thing that I find really odd when looking at all this is that God gave man FREE WILL but if man CHOSE to not follow a rule or commit one of the 7 sins then God PUNISHED them for it.
It seems contradictory. Like "hey I am giving you free will, ok? But if you choose to do something that I don't like then I will punish you by torturing you for all of eternity."
This is one of the many concepts that I feel is kinda flawed. So I would like to hear the responses of two strong Christians about this.

That's where forgiveness comes in. You have to ask God for forgiveness through prayer. God will always forgive you but you have to be willing to stop committing those sins(to the best of your ability).

nightmare2 said:

I don't mind talking to people about their religious views (provided they aren't narrow minded and incredibly ignorant) and having a debate with them.

Nightmare - Don't try talking to KoC

KingofCorn said:

Ok the there is only one true God.

KingofCorn said:

Why are Atheists so plentiful and stubborn?

KoC - Do not look suprised to see me complaining. You would not accept that others may believe in another God (whether it is real or not).

Keyblade21 said:

My point being, there are many different Gods, and even more religions. To call your religion or your deity the only "true" one is ignorant and quite honestly, stupid. How can you be so blind that you can say only yours is right? Maybe you honestly believe that, and if you do I feel sorry for you, but at the same time you don't belong here in this discussion. To be able to discuss something such as religion, you need to first be willing to say that your religion and your God possibly aren't right but they are what you follow and believe in, and second you need to be able to respect others beliefs and idealisms.

I like Nightmare am an Atheist, as I've explained before. But I cannot be sure that a God doesn't exist. If you cannot except that we have different beliefs, then I really don't want to have anything to do with you. Also calling Atheists stubborn is rude and ignorant. Don't think just because I'm nearly 14, I wont voice my opinion.

This is Matt77's best post. We should sticky this!

Dark Breloom said:

This is Matt77's best post. We should sticky this!

The very first part in particular. "Don't try talking to KoC." lolz

KoC didn't reply to my post. That shows even more that he is 100% certain that a God exists (it's impossible to be 100% certain unless he has seen God(which hasn't happened)).

I'm pretty sure KoC will claim that his percent certainty on this is actually more than 100%

I don't know if replying in this thread is a good idea. All this thread does is destroy friendships.

Matt: Why can't someone believe with 100% certainty in their heart and mind in what they believe? I would hope everyone would believe with 100% certainty in whatever they believe in. I would rather have someone believe in something with 100% certainty than be a fence straddler who "doesn't know for sure" with whatever they believe in.

Control: Does that matter? So he believes with certainty with what he believes in. There's no problem in doing that.

Jake: It's a sensitive subject, and that can happen.

As the saying goes "If you want to keep friends don't discuss religion or politics".

Jake: I don't really believe that saying. I love to talk about religion and politics with my friends.

Well it's an old saying. I used to get into political arguments with teachers all the time.

With your teachers? Why were you even talking to them? jk XD

Because they had political views that made me want to slap them.

Maybe it's best that this thread comes to a close. I almost lost a friend because of this.

« Last edited by Matt77 on Mar 4th 2014 »

Eh. If I lost a friend over something like religion, I wouldn't feel too bad, personally.
I don't feel the need to be friends with someone narrow-minded.

If I can't accept that someone has a different opinion than me, I wouldn't expect them to want to be friends with me either.

Warrior isn't narrow-minded though. He accepts the fact that others have their own religions, even bizarre ones that no-one's ever heard of.

Like that religion that worships the Flying Spaghetti Monster?