Discussion: Outer Space

Man I missed a thread like this? Such an interesting topic.
Side note: dx_hbk were you one of the guys who posted in the old debate and discussion forum? Cause I feel like I remember you from there. If so I feel bad for those who are arguing with ya.

Back on topic, I want to first apologize for not going back and reading every single post. I don't have that kind of time. I did read a few and KOC I wanna enlighten you and a few others on.
Theories. <-- defined. I just want to point out that common belief of what a theory is, thank you media, is incorrect. You are mixing up hypothesis and theory. A theory is something which has been tested and to some degree proven. Multiple experiments showing the same result would allow theories to be formed based upon those results. Contrary to popular belief a theory is not some idea or concept thrown out there.
However I do see your confusion when it comes to an idea which media has taken a lot of interest in, the Big Bang Theory. Firstly I do not believe that is a theory. Instead it is more of an idea, a popular one. But to label it as a theory means that scientists have obtained proof of it occurring, which I do no think they have. They have certainly found some evidence that could partly support the Big Bang idea but they haven't proven it.
Firstly it is one thing to look at the bones of dinosaurs which lived 65 million years ago and say that dinosaurs are birds/reptiles/magical beasts but to look at radio waves, gamma, and other waves and say that some 13 billion years ago such and such happened. That I believe is just scientists making something out of nothing.
There is a difference between bones and how the universe began.
I also come to question the supposed age of the universe, which if I remember correctly is supposedly 13.5 billion years old. If I am wrong do point it out. This having been measured based on calculation of how fast other galaxies are moving away from each other and all that. Once again do correct me if I am wrong, it has been awhile since I took astronomy and I am a little foggy. That all being said we have apparently found out the age of Earth, our Sun, and the universe.
However when I look at our suns age of 3 billion yrs old and still only being half way through it's life expectancy (another imo faulty claim) then look at all the black holes out there (while considering that they are formed from incredibly massive stars collapsing at the end of their lives), then look at all the forming and formed planetary nebulas (along with the assumed amount of time that we believe it takes them to form), then look at the age of our Universe, 13.5 billion years. Well I get the feeling that there have been some miscalculations, that and there are many scientists with inflated heads.

I also want to point out that we are always disproving our past selves and theories or ideas we had previously, not only when it comes to space but in many other fields. I believe that with further advances this will only continue, in 100 or so years people will look back and laugh at us for being so stupid.

I also look forward to some of your responses.

As for the original question, I believe that space has no end. As mind blowing as that is I find it even harder to say that space is finite and eventually there is just an end, fly to far and you hit a wall.
Also I believe that yes eventually we will make it to other planets and maybe set up colonies, however I also believe that Volke is right in it being a waste.

Ha I'm actually watching Big Bang Theory.

^Wrong forum.

KoC - I knew cars were around in the 1900's. They were just really bad.

Seeing as we're gonna reach Mars in a few years, I doubt that that will be the limit spaceships can handle. In a few decades, ours will probably faster, therefore we could reach past Mars.

But if we reached the asteroid belt, how would we go through it without being hit by heaps of asteroids?

Matt - I imagine we'll think of something if we get that far. 50 years ago we couldn't imagine having hand held phones with touch screens, and look where we are now. Technology is advancing at such a fast rate that I wouldn't be surprised if all of the things we see in movies actually became reality.

I don't think they'd get too far, probes have passed safely through the astroid belt...But a large spacecraft? I don't see that happening in the near future....

« Last edited by ligerhiou0999 on Feb 10th 2014 »

nightmare2 said:

Side note: dx_hbk were you one of the guys who posted in the old debate and discussion forum? Cause I feel like I remember you from there. If so I feel bad for those who are arguing with ya.

I'm pretty positive he always posted in D&D. I don't know how often he checks the site, so I'm half-assed answering for him. :p

Matt77 said:

^Wrong forum.

Nope. That was his terrible response to nightmare's post. Nightmare had mentioned the Big Bang Theory. Also said "I also look forward to some of your responses" - I'm assuming targeted at KoC. I wonder if he'll be disappointed or not.

ligerhiou0999 said:

But a large spacecraft? I don't see that happening in the near future....

Probably not in the near future, no. But I'd bet there will be some way, eventually, for some sort of larger spacecraft to pass through safely. Maybe there's a spot in the belt with fewer asteroids or something that they could time a flight through. I don't know... Not an expert. xD

Keyblade21 said:

Technology is advancing at such a fast rate that I wouldn't be surprised if all of the things we see in movies actually became reality.

Give me a lightsaber.

Too be honest I didn't have that high of expectations for you guys in coming up with a response. dx_hbk was the one I assumed would give a good response but wasn't too sure on him popping back in.

Well when you stop and think about it, 100 or os years ago the idea of mankind having huge metal birds carrying people through the atmosphere was pretty much fiction. I imagine that once we get a large space station built then I don't see why the idea of getting large spacecraft made would seem so lucrative. Provided we are trying to build it at the space station instead of on earth.

Isn't a major problem with extended space travel lack of oxygen?

I think the next step really would be building some station larger than the ISS. By that time, we'd have probably figured out a quicker and more efficient way to go that small distance right outside the atmosphere, and would be able to easily send random shuttles to the station.

Then, like you said nightmare, they could start building larger ships right on the station.

As for oxygen. They can either just bring large quantities of it, or learn a quicker way to do artificial photosynthesis.

Well according to my limited knowledge on air, it all get's recycled through plants and stuff. It really would all come down to how they have designed the shuttles, stations, or ships. I imagine for something like a station they will have a system up, nice very decorative plants that do the air recycling thingy, large initial tanks of oxygen, and an artificial photosynthesis machine built in. However another thing to take note of is that they'd also have to be careful to keep oxygen levels from getting too high.

Taking to time to think on it what is breathed in is only one of the few major problems that would have to be solved. As of right now I don't think we have managed to solve the air problem. So chances are we are more than a few generations from actually space travel.

It's good to see some big posts.

Building ships on the space station is a good idea. I don't know why they haven't already but if they build them there, the space ships won't have to travel as far. It would definitely help solve the lack of fuel problem.

I still wonder how we'll get through the asteroid belt without getting hit by heaps of asteroids. Maybe we need to invent weapons to blast through all the asteroids.

Nightmare - I couldn't really reply to your big post. It had some good info and was huge, but it didn't really have a question. If it did, I didn't see it or didn't understand it.

Or we could travel through black holes.

KoC - First, you would have to find a black hole. But that isn't possible unless we pass the asteroid belt. Also, if we did somehow find a black hole on the edge of the asteroid belt, when you fly into it, you would be crushed by immense pressure.

Matt77 said:

Building ships on the space station is a good idea. I don't know why they haven't already but if they build them there, the space ships won't have to travel as far. It would definitely help solve the lack of fuel problem.

I still wonder how we'll get through the asteroid belt without getting hit by heaps of asteroids. Maybe we need to invent weapons to blast through all the asteroids.

It wouldn't be worthwhile to build a larger space station, with present technology. The ISS is really all that's needed, and I wouldn't even say it's particularly "needed" currently, either. Building another space station won't do much until there's more of a reason for one - and the 'funding' thing is a problem too.

I'm sure when it gets to the point where we can even reach the asteroid belt, and are considering going beyond it, there would be something like that. Or honestly, some 'force field' type of thing. Or there's the potential that we figure out a way to easily maneuver through space, and can just fly around asteroids all together.

KoC said:

Or we could travel through black holes.

That's definitely not gonna happen. If it's even possible, I highly doubt we'd be doing it for a long, long, LONG time. Step one would be discovering some new material that could withstand the huge amounts of pressure that a blackhole gives off. Step two would be figuring out if a blackhole even leads anywhere

Doesn't it lead to a wormhole?

Matt77 said:

KoC - First, you would have to find a black hole. But that isn't possible unless we pass the asteroid belt. Also, if we did somehow find a black hole on the edge of the asteroid belt, when you fly into it, you would be crushed by immense pressure.

You guys are focusing on this asteroid belt thing way too much. The belt is just a large collection of rocks in orbit of the sun. It isn't dense and impassable. Actually we have already sent many things past it, most notably would be a probe called the voyager 1 which is currently on the edge of our solar system.
http://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/
http://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov...cts.html
Also we can always just go over the belt if we can't find a way through it. It may take a lot longer but it will still work.

Next your point about black holes, we already know the location of many and scientists believe that there is one inside our galaxy.
http://www.nasa.gov/mission...ole.html
Not only that we already know the locations of many other black holes so finding them wouldn't necessarily be the problem, the problem would be reaching them. And we wouldn't need to dive straight into one we could use a modified version of the slingshot method which involves orbit an object with high mass and using it to shoot us into space at high speeds. Whenever we send out probes we always slingshot them around the moon first.

When you said slingshot I automatically imagined that scene from Armageddon.

KoC said:

Doesn't it lead to a wormhole?

No. The best current guess for what is in a black hole is nothing. There's just a tiny point in the center that has absolutely no mass in it whatsoever. Though that hasn't been proven either.
As for wormholes - Assuming Einstein's General Theory of Relativity (which explains gravity and assumes it is a geometric property of spacetime) is correct, wormholes are assumed to be able to exist, but none have been seen. So it's not proven whether or not they're even real.

nightmare2 said:

Actually we have already sent many things past it, most notably would be a probe called the voyager 1 which is currently on the edge of our solar system.

We had mentioned the probes that made it passed the asteroid belt. But there is quite a difference between a small probe and a giant spacecraft. ;p

I say we just invent some sort of space station that can destroy asteroids of any size.