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Kenny 2x4 Posted: 16:08 May24 2008
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Quite right.
Although I still have to get my head around it sometimes, but if a guy prefers guys or a woman prefers women then it's up to them to decide.
We can't force them to be heterosexual because it's the supposed "natural" way of living and how we reproduce, but for some that's like the last thing on their minds.
"Differences" tend to make people think they are unnatural or something, but divorcity keeps society interesting and lively.
Although I still have to get my head around it sometimes, but if a guy prefers guys or a woman prefers women then it's up to them to decide.
We can't force them to be heterosexual because it's the supposed "natural" way of living and how we reproduce, but for some that's like the last thing on their minds.
"Differences" tend to make people think they are unnatural or something, but divorcity keeps society interesting and lively.
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marielue5 Posted: 18:46 May24 2008
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Where in thwe Bible does it say that we all need to be the same as those in the beginning? Nowhere, I think.... -flareon dude
(1 Corinthians 6:9) ?Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God, Be not deceived, neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.?
The Greek word for ?effeminate? is malakos, which means something soft to the touch, but is being used as a metaphor to refer to a boy kept for homosexual relations with a man. The ?abusers of themselves with mankind? are those men who take part in unnatural sexual relations with other men. Which are the homosexuals. And God is saying here that homosexuality is a sin.
(Romans 1:26-27) ?For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections, for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature. And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.?
This verse is also referring to homosexuals, and obveously saying its wrong.
(Leviticus 20:13) "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman both of them have committed an abomination, they shall surely be put to death, their blood shall be upon them."
Obveously this verse is referring to homosexuals, and how it is wrong and not in God's plan.
So yeah thoughs are just a few spots in the Bible where it says we need to be the same sexual wise.
People have changed from the Biblical beginning, TI, and that is evident in modern culture (Satanists, homosexuals, bohemianists, gypsies, Republicans, Puritans, etc.).
Actually almost all of thoughs kinds of people are found in the Bible, however thats beside the point. Sure people have changed in their opinions but as far as creation wise, people havn't changed.
Where in the Bible does it say that people can't have free expression and love?
No where, I suppose that means we can go express are selves and show are emotion by killing a person. After all no where in the Bible does it say we can't express are selves. Thats basicly what you are saying, while we are allowed to express are selves there are still laws to abide by when doing so, and I do believe that I just proved that homosexuality is against the law in Gods word.
(1 Corinthians 6:9) ?Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God, Be not deceived, neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.?
The Greek word for ?effeminate? is malakos, which means something soft to the touch, but is being used as a metaphor to refer to a boy kept for homosexual relations with a man. The ?abusers of themselves with mankind? are those men who take part in unnatural sexual relations with other men. Which are the homosexuals. And God is saying here that homosexuality is a sin.
(Romans 1:26-27) ?For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections, for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature. And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.?
This verse is also referring to homosexuals, and obveously saying its wrong.
(Leviticus 20:13) "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman both of them have committed an abomination, they shall surely be put to death, their blood shall be upon them."
Obveously this verse is referring to homosexuals, and how it is wrong and not in God's plan.
So yeah thoughs are just a few spots in the Bible where it says we need to be the same sexual wise.
People have changed from the Biblical beginning, TI, and that is evident in modern culture (Satanists, homosexuals, bohemianists, gypsies, Republicans, Puritans, etc.).
Actually almost all of thoughs kinds of people are found in the Bible, however thats beside the point. Sure people have changed in their opinions but as far as creation wise, people havn't changed.
Where in the Bible does it say that people can't have free expression and love?
No where, I suppose that means we can go express are selves and show are emotion by killing a person. After all no where in the Bible does it say we can't express are selves. Thats basicly what you are saying, while we are allowed to express are selves there are still laws to abide by when doing so, and I do believe that I just proved that homosexuality is against the law in Gods word.
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Flareon Dude_ Posted: 21:34 May24 2008
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ugh, making me get out the ol' Bible.....
Uh, for your 1 Corinthians verse, I think we may have different versions of the Bible, or you're just wrong. 6:9-10 in mine are as follows:
"Surely you know the wicked will not possess God's Kingdom. Do not fool yourselves; people who are immoral or who worship idols or are adulterers or homosexual perverts (10) or who steal or are greedy or are thieves- none of these will possess God's Kingdom."
It doesn't specifically say that we all need to be the same, just that those who are not will not get into Heaven. Is that really so wrong?
Leviticus 20:13-
"If a man has sexual intercourse with another man, they have done a disgusting thing, and both shall be put to death"
This, here, is the Lord speaking to Moses and telling him to speak to the people of Israel of these penalties for disobedience to his rule. In today's standards, it's not like a gay man or a gay woman will be struck down by the wrath of God. Besides that, it only said man. Not about woman.
Actually almost all of thoughs kinds of people are found in the Bible, however thats beside the point. Sure people have changed in their opinions but as far as creation wise, people havn't changed.
Please elaborate, I am puzzled.
No where, I suppose that means we can go express are selves and show are emotion by killing a person
Exodus 20:13-
"Do not commit murder"
>.>
Uh, for your 1 Corinthians verse, I think we may have different versions of the Bible, or you're just wrong. 6:9-10 in mine are as follows:
"Surely you know the wicked will not possess God's Kingdom. Do not fool yourselves; people who are immoral or who worship idols or are adulterers or homosexual perverts (10) or who steal or are greedy or are thieves- none of these will possess God's Kingdom."
It doesn't specifically say that we all need to be the same, just that those who are not will not get into Heaven. Is that really so wrong?
Leviticus 20:13-
"If a man has sexual intercourse with another man, they have done a disgusting thing, and both shall be put to death"
This, here, is the Lord speaking to Moses and telling him to speak to the people of Israel of these penalties for disobedience to his rule. In today's standards, it's not like a gay man or a gay woman will be struck down by the wrath of God. Besides that, it only said man. Not about woman.
Actually almost all of thoughs kinds of people are found in the Bible, however thats beside the point. Sure people have changed in their opinions but as far as creation wise, people havn't changed.
Please elaborate, I am puzzled.
No where, I suppose that means we can go express are selves and show are emotion by killing a person
Exodus 20:13-
"Do not commit murder"
>.>
"Do or do not, there is no try" -Yoda
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super craig Posted: 16:21 May25 2008
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You need to back up your point with a couple of reasons as to why you believe that.
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marielue5 Posted: 20:55 May25 2008
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Uh, for your 1 Corinthians verse, I think we may have different versions of the Bible, or you're just wrong. 6:9-10 in mine are as follows:
Yes we have different versions, I have the kjv version, a less translated version so that I can look up the words and translate it myself. And your version, a already tranlated version that is easy to understand, but could be translated wrong in certain places. Which is the reason why I don't like your version. Given we don't have the greek version(we don't know greek), but the kjv actually has words that can be translated into other words when looking back to the greek words, which is why I believe its the best version for me to use. Am I saying that all versions are wrong besides kjv? No that is not at all what I'm saying. I'm simply saying that I believe the kjv is the best for in depth research.
It doesn't specifically say that we all need to be the same, just that those who are not will not get into Heaven. Is that really so wrong?
^^Lol at this, the verse is calling them wicked, I think that means its wrong =P
Also this verse isn't saying that if your homosexual or any of the other things listed that you won't go to heaven. You see we all sin, and come short of God's glory, so the only way to heaven is not by are works, but through God(who died on the cross for us) So yes you won't go to heaven if you sin and don't ask God to forgive you, and accept his gift of salvation. However you can get to heaven even if you kill someone, or are any of the other sins listed as long as you ask him to forgive you, and accept his gift of salvation.
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gaveth his only begotten son, that who so ever should believe on him, shall be saved." Thats what the Bible says about getting to heaven.
"If a man has sexual intercourse with another man, they have done a disgusting thing, and both shall be put to death"
This, here, is the Lord speaking to Moses and telling him to speak to the people of Israel of these penalties for disobedience to his rule. In today's standards, it's not like a gay man or a gay woman will be struck down by the wrath of God. Besides that, it only said man. Not about woman.
Does it honestly matter where this is at, and when it happend? Its still saying the same thing, and that is that men that do other things with men should be put to death. In the beggining you were saying that the Bible had nothing in it that referred to people having to be the same as other people, and I aurgued that the Bible says you do have to be the same, as far as liking the opposite gender goes. But now you are saying that while its wrong, people don't get punished like before. Lol make up your mind, is it "the Bible doesn't say anything about having to be the same as far as liking the opposite gender goes. People shouldn't be kept from who they love" Or is it "Well the Bible does say that liking the opposite gender is wrong, but we are not punished like back in biblical times, so its ok." You have completly changed views....
Also have you ever heard of the judgement seat of christ? That is when we shall all be judged.
"Do not commit murder"
^Ok so you were replying to me saying "No where, I suppose that means we can go express are selves and show are emotion by killing a person. After all no where in the Bible does it say we can't express are selves. Thats basicly what you are saying, while we are allowed to express are selves there are still laws to abide by when doing so, and I do believe that I just proved that homosexuality is against the law in Gods word."
May I ask if you even read my whole post? Because you cut off my quote and made it out like I believed in killing someone, when really I was saying that that is basicly what you are saying. Notice the "Thats basicly what you are saying" In my post lol. So please read it again and you should see what I was saying.
« Last edited by marielue5 on May 25th 2008 »
Yes we have different versions, I have the kjv version, a less translated version so that I can look up the words and translate it myself. And your version, a already tranlated version that is easy to understand, but could be translated wrong in certain places. Which is the reason why I don't like your version. Given we don't have the greek version(we don't know greek), but the kjv actually has words that can be translated into other words when looking back to the greek words, which is why I believe its the best version for me to use. Am I saying that all versions are wrong besides kjv? No that is not at all what I'm saying. I'm simply saying that I believe the kjv is the best for in depth research.
It doesn't specifically say that we all need to be the same, just that those who are not will not get into Heaven. Is that really so wrong?
^^Lol at this, the verse is calling them wicked, I think that means its wrong =P
Also this verse isn't saying that if your homosexual or any of the other things listed that you won't go to heaven. You see we all sin, and come short of God's glory, so the only way to heaven is not by are works, but through God(who died on the cross for us) So yes you won't go to heaven if you sin and don't ask God to forgive you, and accept his gift of salvation. However you can get to heaven even if you kill someone, or are any of the other sins listed as long as you ask him to forgive you, and accept his gift of salvation.
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gaveth his only begotten son, that who so ever should believe on him, shall be saved." Thats what the Bible says about getting to heaven.
"If a man has sexual intercourse with another man, they have done a disgusting thing, and both shall be put to death"
This, here, is the Lord speaking to Moses and telling him to speak to the people of Israel of these penalties for disobedience to his rule. In today's standards, it's not like a gay man or a gay woman will be struck down by the wrath of God. Besides that, it only said man. Not about woman.
Does it honestly matter where this is at, and when it happend? Its still saying the same thing, and that is that men that do other things with men should be put to death. In the beggining you were saying that the Bible had nothing in it that referred to people having to be the same as other people, and I aurgued that the Bible says you do have to be the same, as far as liking the opposite gender goes. But now you are saying that while its wrong, people don't get punished like before. Lol make up your mind, is it "the Bible doesn't say anything about having to be the same as far as liking the opposite gender goes. People shouldn't be kept from who they love" Or is it "Well the Bible does say that liking the opposite gender is wrong, but we are not punished like back in biblical times, so its ok." You have completly changed views....
Also have you ever heard of the judgement seat of christ? That is when we shall all be judged.
"Do not commit murder"
^Ok so you were replying to me saying "No where, I suppose that means we can go express are selves and show are emotion by killing a person. After all no where in the Bible does it say we can't express are selves. Thats basicly what you are saying, while we are allowed to express are selves there are still laws to abide by when doing so, and I do believe that I just proved that homosexuality is against the law in Gods word."
May I ask if you even read my whole post? Because you cut off my quote and made it out like I believed in killing someone, when really I was saying that that is basicly what you are saying. Notice the "Thats basicly what you are saying" In my post lol. So please read it again and you should see what I was saying.
« Last edited by marielue5 on May 25th 2008 »
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kairiloverX Posted: 21:12 May25 2008
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@marielue5: Why is religion (specifically Christianity) even being brought into this? The majority of homosexuals (Just guessing) in the world are probably not Christian, so why would they care about "Corinthians 1-9"? I'm sorry, but you're posting like everyone should believe in your views on life. You might think that Christianity is what everyone else should do, but other people obviously don't. So, what I'm really trying to say is that you're wrong, and Flareon Dude_ is right.
@Flareon Dude_:
1. I absolutely LOVE the avy dude...
2. I definitely agree with your view, but you are kinda contradicting yourself. First you say that the bible doesn't say that you can't express yourself, then marielue5 brought up a great point about killing, then you said that the bible says "thou shalt not kill" (or something like that). I'm kinda confused...
« Last edited by kairiloverX on May 25th 2008 »
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@Flareon Dude_:
1. I absolutely LOVE the avy dude...
2. I definitely agree with your view, but you are kinda contradicting yourself. First you say that the bible doesn't say that you can't express yourself, then marielue5 brought up a great point about killing, then you said that the bible says "thou shalt not kill" (or something like that). I'm kinda confused...
« Last edited by kairiloverX on May 25th 2008 »
-Sig credit goes to PhilXZ. The pic of Kairi's head was cropped by Rathalos9. Apparently no one else can crop Kairi's head...
Flareon Dude_ Posted: 23:09 May25 2008
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uh, thank you, but might I suggest you go back and re-read our posts a couple of times, as to get a better understanding?
and of course I read your whole post, marielue. I just felt like extracting that one excerpt of your post for my purposes.
and of course I read your whole post, marielue. I just felt like extracting that one excerpt of your post for my purposes.
"Do or do not, there is no try" -Yoda
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Shadow_Lord Posted: 05:02 May26 2008
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[b][i]"Why is religion (specifically Christianity) even being brought into this? The majority of homosexuals (Just guessing) in the world are probably not Christian, so why would they care about "Corinthians 1-9"? I'm sorry, but you're posting like everyone should believe in your views on life. You might think that Christianity is what everyone else should do, but other people obviously don't. So, what I'm really trying to say is that you're wrong, and Flareon Dude_ is right."[/b][/i]
Uh... no. If you read the rest of the debate, you'd see that we're not just debating whether or not homosexuality is acceptable in a general sense, but also what the biblical view on it is. And yes, that is an important point, since despite your assertion, a lot of people in this world, particularly in America, are both homosexual and Christian.
Uh... no. If you read the rest of the debate, you'd see that we're not just debating whether or not homosexuality is acceptable in a general sense, but also what the biblical view on it is. And yes, that is an important point, since despite your assertion, a lot of people in this world, particularly in America, are both homosexual and Christian.
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marielue5 Posted: 14:04 May26 2008
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Why is religion (specifically Christianity) even being brought into this?
Because flareon dude said somthing false about the Bible and I corrected him. In otherwords I'm not the one that brought the Bible in, he is, and I can't stand it when people say false things about the Bible, so I corrected him. which is still beside the point, christianity has a right to be brought in as any other view does, you will see some reasons why later in my posts.
The majority of homosexuals (Just guessing) in the world are probably not Christian
Well some are not, and some are. So why does that matter?
I'm sorry, but you're posting like everyone should believe in your views on life.
I'm not posting like everyone should believe my veiws, as I said before I'm defending the aurgument flareon dude brought up.
Its kind of funny how when a person posts scientific posts, everyone excepts it. Its as if people think that science proves where we came from and everything we do in life. When really all scientists can do is gather the pieces they have, and make assumtions based on evidence on where we came from. Yet people will just sit there and say "oh their right" when really the scientists who claimed the truth even admits he could be wrong, and that he is just taking educated guesses based on evidence. Then when I post somthing biblically true, everyone accepts it as being wrong, when really both veiws come down to the same thing, faith.
You might think that Christianity is what everyone else should do, but other people obviously don't
Well I never said that. But I will say I wish thats what everyone els would do, I wish people wouldn't reject God's plan of salvation. I wish that people would understand that there is a heaven and a hell, and you are going to one or the other. I wish they would understand how to be saved, and its not by are works, but through God. And I wish that are country would get back to the morals it started with.
Because flareon dude said somthing false about the Bible and I corrected him. In otherwords I'm not the one that brought the Bible in, he is, and I can't stand it when people say false things about the Bible, so I corrected him. which is still beside the point, christianity has a right to be brought in as any other view does, you will see some reasons why later in my posts.
The majority of homosexuals (Just guessing) in the world are probably not Christian
Well some are not, and some are. So why does that matter?
I'm sorry, but you're posting like everyone should believe in your views on life.
I'm not posting like everyone should believe my veiws, as I said before I'm defending the aurgument flareon dude brought up.
Its kind of funny how when a person posts scientific posts, everyone excepts it. Its as if people think that science proves where we came from and everything we do in life. When really all scientists can do is gather the pieces they have, and make assumtions based on evidence on where we came from. Yet people will just sit there and say "oh their right" when really the scientists who claimed the truth even admits he could be wrong, and that he is just taking educated guesses based on evidence. Then when I post somthing biblically true, everyone accepts it as being wrong, when really both veiws come down to the same thing, faith.
You might think that Christianity is what everyone else should do, but other people obviously don't
Well I never said that. But I will say I wish thats what everyone els would do, I wish people wouldn't reject God's plan of salvation. I wish that people would understand that there is a heaven and a hell, and you are going to one or the other. I wish they would understand how to be saved, and its not by are works, but through God. And I wish that are country would get back to the morals it started with.
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super craig Posted: 14:28 May26 2008
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I know this has sod all to do with homosexuality but one thing I actually like about science is the fact that it admits that it might be wrong and doesn't know everything, I far prefer that to someone telling me that somethiing is completely perfect and infalliable and that I should just take someones word on it. I also disagree that they come completely down to faith, at least with science if someone told me something I've got the chance of testing it for myself (experiments etc) as opposed to again just taking someone's word.
Back on topic, I don't understand why God would give us free will to make the choices that we want, so long as everyone thinks and acts the same, bit of a contridiction there. I'd have thought that it should allow people to do what they want and if that meant been with someone of the same sex then thats fine by me.
Back on topic, I don't understand why God would give us free will to make the choices that we want, so long as everyone thinks and acts the same, bit of a contridiction there. I'd have thought that it should allow people to do what they want and if that meant been with someone of the same sex then thats fine by me.
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marielue5 Posted: 14:50 May26 2008
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I know this has sod all to do with homosexuality but one thing I actually like about science is the fact that it admits that it might be wrong and doesn't know everything, I far prefer that to someone telling me that somethiing is completely perfect and infalliable and that I should just take someones word on it. I also disagree that they come completely down to faith, at least with science if someone told me something I've got the chance of testing it for myself (experiments etc) as opposed to again just taking someone's word.
Yeah I'm sorry it seems like every thread I go to turns into a "The existence of God thread" And I'm not trying to go off topic into that debate, its just peoples questions seem to always lead there.
I also disagree that they come completely down to faith, at least with science if someone told me something I've got the chance of testing it for myself (experiments etc)
Yes it actually does come down to faith, whether you think you have more evidence supporting that faith is your opinion. But what it comes down to is faith. Also there are just some things you can't test and prove right, if that were the case, I don't believe we would even be debating right now.
Back on topic, I don't understand why God would give us free will to make the choices that we want, so long as everyone thinks and acts the same, bit of a contridiction there. I'd have thought that it should allow people to do what they want and if that meant been with someone of the same sex then thats fine by me.
Indeed back on topic, the Bible does not say to think and act the same. However it does give us laws to abide by when thinking, or making decisions, so its not counterdicting at all.
Yeah I'm sorry it seems like every thread I go to turns into a "The existence of God thread" And I'm not trying to go off topic into that debate, its just peoples questions seem to always lead there.
I also disagree that they come completely down to faith, at least with science if someone told me something I've got the chance of testing it for myself (experiments etc)
Yes it actually does come down to faith, whether you think you have more evidence supporting that faith is your opinion. But what it comes down to is faith. Also there are just some things you can't test and prove right, if that were the case, I don't believe we would even be debating right now.
Back on topic, I don't understand why God would give us free will to make the choices that we want, so long as everyone thinks and acts the same, bit of a contridiction there. I'd have thought that it should allow people to do what they want and if that meant been with someone of the same sex then thats fine by me.
Indeed back on topic, the Bible does not say to think and act the same. However it does give us laws to abide by when thinking, or making decisions, so its not counterdicting at all.
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kairiloverX Posted: 22:25 May26 2008
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But that's the beauty of science isn't it? They make the best guesses possible according to evidence. Good, solid, scientific evidence. Religion is saying "You will believe this, and not question it. That other thing is wrong." Even if the theory of evolution is wrong (which it probably isn't...) Scientists would say, "Apparently I was wrong. My bad, now I will try something different to truly figure out what actually happened." Religion doesn't question anything. It just rely's (sorry about the spelling) a book written about 2000 years ago by someone that nobody really knows. Jesus could quite possibly never have even existed my friend. But, all religion does is believe in a book saying that he did, in fact, exist. Biblical "truth" isn't really truth at all. It's simply a "theory". The whole point behind religion in a whole in the first place was to explain events that could not be explained by science at the time. That is really all it is...
To me, "faith" is dumb. It's an excuse from religious people so they can get away with winning an argument.
There is no point to the "laws" in the bible. The law saying that being gay is bad, isn't really a law at all. It's just the way Jesus believed. That doesn't mean that everyone else has to believe the same thing, they just believe in it, because, remember, the bible, is "truth".
« Last edited by kairiloverX on May 26th 2008 » -Sig credit goes to PhilXZ. The pic of Kairi's head was cropped by Rathalos9. Apparently no one else can crop Kairi's head...
To me, "faith" is dumb. It's an excuse from religious people so they can get away with winning an argument.
There is no point to the "laws" in the bible. The law saying that being gay is bad, isn't really a law at all. It's just the way Jesus believed. That doesn't mean that everyone else has to believe the same thing, they just believe in it, because, remember, the bible, is "truth".
« Last edited by kairiloverX on May 26th 2008 »
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Shadow_Lord Posted: 07:05 May27 2008
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[b][i]"Yes it actually does come down to faith, whether you think you have more evidence supporting that faith is your opinion. But what it comes down to is faith. Also there are just some things you can't test and prove right, if that were the case, I don't believe we would even be debating right now."[/b][/i]
I'd disagree there. The only faith involved in science is trusting the sources which tell you about scientific advances - and even then the truly rationally thinking individual will look for confirmation from independent sources. When it comes down to science itself, all theories are based entirely on empirical evidence. Evidence is collected, evaluated and interpreted based on previous scientific knowledge. This interpretation becomes the theory.
Contrast this with religion, which places faith entirely on the words of its scripture, its prophets and individual experiences. None of these sources are independently verifiable; they cannot be proven or disproven. Now, I'm not saying faith is a bad thing, just that arguing that both science and religion are based on it in equal amounts is a distortion of the facts.
Anyway, now that's out of the way, time to nitpick other people's posts.
[b][i]"Jesus could quite possibly never have even existed my friend."[/b][/i]
Possibly, but it now seems probably that a man called Jesus did exist at more or less the time the Bible says he did. Whether or not he was the son of God, of course, is a different matter.
[b][i]"It's just the way Jesus believed."[/b][/i]
Well, if we leave aside the fact that a Christian would argue that Jesus' opinion was infallible, I'd then argue that it may not have been Jesus opinion, just the opinion of the gospel writers. Indeed, I believe many of the anti-gay passages of the Bible actually come from the Old Testament, not the New Testament (many, not all), which predates Jesus.
I'd disagree there. The only faith involved in science is trusting the sources which tell you about scientific advances - and even then the truly rationally thinking individual will look for confirmation from independent sources. When it comes down to science itself, all theories are based entirely on empirical evidence. Evidence is collected, evaluated and interpreted based on previous scientific knowledge. This interpretation becomes the theory.
Contrast this with religion, which places faith entirely on the words of its scripture, its prophets and individual experiences. None of these sources are independently verifiable; they cannot be proven or disproven. Now, I'm not saying faith is a bad thing, just that arguing that both science and religion are based on it in equal amounts is a distortion of the facts.
Anyway, now that's out of the way, time to nitpick other people's posts.
[b][i]"Jesus could quite possibly never have even existed my friend."[/b][/i]
Possibly, but it now seems probably that a man called Jesus did exist at more or less the time the Bible says he did. Whether or not he was the son of God, of course, is a different matter.
[b][i]"It's just the way Jesus believed."[/b][/i]
Well, if we leave aside the fact that a Christian would argue that Jesus' opinion was infallible, I'd then argue that it may not have been Jesus opinion, just the opinion of the gospel writers. Indeed, I believe many of the anti-gay passages of the Bible actually come from the Old Testament, not the New Testament (many, not all), which predates Jesus.
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kairiloverX Posted: 08:21 May27 2008
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Possibly, but it now seems probably that a man called Jesus did exist at more or less the time the Bible says he did. Whether or not he was the son of God, of course, is a different matter.
That's what I menat. There might well have been a figure around that time with the name of Jesus, but I don't believe that Jesus was ever real.
Well, if we leave aside the fact that a Christian would argue that Jesus' opinion was infallible, I'd then argue that it may not have been Jesus opinion, just the opinion of the gospel writers. Indeed, I believe many of the anti-gay passages of the Bible actually come from the Old Testament, not the New Testament (many, not all), which predates Jesus.
Good point. Okay, I'll change that post to Christians believe in the Gospel Writers opinion. With no scientific proof behind it. -Sig credit goes to PhilXZ. The pic of Kairi's head was cropped by Rathalos9. Apparently no one else can crop Kairi's head...
That's what I menat. There might well have been a figure around that time with the name of Jesus, but I don't believe that Jesus was ever real.
Well, if we leave aside the fact that a Christian would argue that Jesus' opinion was infallible, I'd then argue that it may not have been Jesus opinion, just the opinion of the gospel writers. Indeed, I believe many of the anti-gay passages of the Bible actually come from the Old Testament, not the New Testament (many, not all), which predates Jesus.
Good point. Okay, I'll change that post to Christians believe in the Gospel Writers opinion. With no scientific proof behind it.
-Sig credit goes to PhilXZ. The pic of Kairi's head was cropped by Rathalos9. Apparently no one else can crop Kairi's head...
marielue5 Posted: 13:44 May28 2008
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I'd disagree there. The only faith involved in science is trusting the sources which tell you about scientific advances - and even then the truly rationally thinking individual will look for confirmation from independent sources. When it comes down to science itself, all theories are based entirely on empirical evidence. Evidence is collected, evaluated and interpreted based on previous scientific knowledge. This interpretation becomes the theory.
Do you have any evidence that proves where we came from, no you don't. So it comes down to faith, am I saying it comes down to blind faith? No that is not what I'm saying, however it does come down to some faith.
Contrast this with religion, which places faith entirely on the words of its scripture, its prophets and individual experiences.
Yes it does, but we do have evidence to support that religion. People around the world are indoctrinated by evolutionists who believe that layers like those we see at the Grand Canyon took millions of years to be laid down. That belief of billions of years is foundational to evolutionary thinking. What happened at Mount St. Helens, however, challenges that belief.
The eruption of Mount St. Helens was a rather small and localized event. If a small explosion like this could cause such catastrophic results, what could happen if there were larger explosions all over the globe?
Genesis 7:11, telling the beginning of the great Flood back when Noah was alive, "In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened."(later in the verse's it goes on to talk about the flood) I believe this is talking about volcanic activity across earth. Most people would say that its impossible for such a flood to happen. But most people would also believe that what happend at Mount St. Helens would take millions of years.
The events associated with the volcano?s explosion accomplished in hours, geologic work that normally would be interpreted as having taken hundreds or even millions of years. Yet it didn't, is it possible that scientists assumptions based on evidence were wrong here, is it possible that scientists "evidence" that "proves" that such a flood couldn't happen is wrong here? And is it possible thats scientists theory of evolution could be wrong here? Yes very possible.
In 1897 gold was discovered in Canada, and Alaska. These men moved down there, and well, you know the story, looked for gold. There was lots of water around, so a big nozzle was used to direct a stream of water to melt the frozen earth. The ground thawed and the men found lots of gold. But along the way they found something unexpected. The giant nozzle unearthed fossilized mammoth bones. The bones had become fossilized while the animal was still standing up. And there were not one or two mammoths, but a whole herd of them, Some of the tusks from these mammoths were ten inches in diameter. Why were these animals buried standing up? When animals die, they fall down. There must have been some unusual disaster to bury them before they died. A disaster that would have had to move so fast, as to have buried them alive? Hmm perhaps scientists were also wrong on their "evidence" that proves such a disaster would take millions of years, Perhaps they were wrong on the flood as well.
What am I saying? I'm saying that the Bible also has supporting debates, not just blind faith. It seems as though society(schools etc.) have excepted this evolutionary way of thinking, and society will make the Bible out like it is a childrens book, or fairytail. Society will tell you there is no evidence that supports the Bible's truths, and evolutionary thinking has just been excepted as truth and taught across schools. This is one of the many things that bothers me, and really upsets me. And I'm starting to feel the same on this forum.
Anyways, this topic is about homosexuality, and the verses I gave earlier from the Bible proves that by biblical standerds homosexuality is a sin, and is wrong. So any christian who believes its not, is probably not well educated on the subject (as far as the Bible goes) Anyways that was the main point I wanted to make in coming to this topic, by biblical standerds its wrong.
Do you have any evidence that proves where we came from, no you don't. So it comes down to faith, am I saying it comes down to blind faith? No that is not what I'm saying, however it does come down to some faith.
Contrast this with religion, which places faith entirely on the words of its scripture, its prophets and individual experiences.
Yes it does, but we do have evidence to support that religion. People around the world are indoctrinated by evolutionists who believe that layers like those we see at the Grand Canyon took millions of years to be laid down. That belief of billions of years is foundational to evolutionary thinking. What happened at Mount St. Helens, however, challenges that belief.
The eruption of Mount St. Helens was a rather small and localized event. If a small explosion like this could cause such catastrophic results, what could happen if there were larger explosions all over the globe?
Genesis 7:11, telling the beginning of the great Flood back when Noah was alive, "In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened."(later in the verse's it goes on to talk about the flood) I believe this is talking about volcanic activity across earth. Most people would say that its impossible for such a flood to happen. But most people would also believe that what happend at Mount St. Helens would take millions of years.
The events associated with the volcano?s explosion accomplished in hours, geologic work that normally would be interpreted as having taken hundreds or even millions of years. Yet it didn't, is it possible that scientists assumptions based on evidence were wrong here, is it possible that scientists "evidence" that "proves" that such a flood couldn't happen is wrong here? And is it possible thats scientists theory of evolution could be wrong here? Yes very possible.
In 1897 gold was discovered in Canada, and Alaska. These men moved down there, and well, you know the story, looked for gold. There was lots of water around, so a big nozzle was used to direct a stream of water to melt the frozen earth. The ground thawed and the men found lots of gold. But along the way they found something unexpected. The giant nozzle unearthed fossilized mammoth bones. The bones had become fossilized while the animal was still standing up. And there were not one or two mammoths, but a whole herd of them, Some of the tusks from these mammoths were ten inches in diameter. Why were these animals buried standing up? When animals die, they fall down. There must have been some unusual disaster to bury them before they died. A disaster that would have had to move so fast, as to have buried them alive? Hmm perhaps scientists were also wrong on their "evidence" that proves such a disaster would take millions of years, Perhaps they were wrong on the flood as well.
What am I saying? I'm saying that the Bible also has supporting debates, not just blind faith. It seems as though society(schools etc.) have excepted this evolutionary way of thinking, and society will make the Bible out like it is a childrens book, or fairytail. Society will tell you there is no evidence that supports the Bible's truths, and evolutionary thinking has just been excepted as truth and taught across schools. This is one of the many things that bothers me, and really upsets me. And I'm starting to feel the same on this forum.
Anyways, this topic is about homosexuality, and the verses I gave earlier from the Bible proves that by biblical standerds homosexuality is a sin, and is wrong. So any christian who believes its not, is probably not well educated on the subject (as far as the Bible goes) Anyways that was the main point I wanted to make in coming to this topic, by biblical standerds its wrong.
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Shadow_Lord Posted: 18:12 May28 2008
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Marilue5, I'm going to be frank with you: much of that post was pure drivel. I can't exactly say it was an encouraging sign when you started parroting the arguments of people like Kent Hovind and VenomFangX (both of whom have been proven idiots on numerous occasions - might I suggest Thunderf00t's YouTube channel?). Why was it drivel? Well, to put it plainly, your arguments were both irrelevant and lacking in evidence.
First of all, as I've said time and time again, arguing what is possible is irrelevant when discussing the concept of a potentially omnipotent God, purely because anything is possible. Your great flood is possible; so are magical pink unicorns and the flying spaghetti mosnter. We must instead argue what is probable, what we have evidence for. You sort of acknowledge this at the start... then go off on something completely unrelated - see below.
[b][i]"Do you have any evidence that proves where we came from, no you don't."[/b][/i]
First of all, jumping to conclusions is not a good way to go about things. Secondly... what? How's that even relevant? Still, if I don't have evidence for something, I just say, "Fine, I don't know. Simple as that." That's the scientific view. Religion, however, draws conclusions regardless of the evidence - hence, faith. Moving on.
... or I would if I had time. Watch this space, I'll edit later.
First of all, as I've said time and time again, arguing what is possible is irrelevant when discussing the concept of a potentially omnipotent God, purely because anything is possible. Your great flood is possible; so are magical pink unicorns and the flying spaghetti mosnter. We must instead argue what is probable, what we have evidence for. You sort of acknowledge this at the start... then go off on something completely unrelated - see below.
[b][i]"Do you have any evidence that proves where we came from, no you don't."[/b][/i]
First of all, jumping to conclusions is not a good way to go about things. Secondly... what? How's that even relevant? Still, if I don't have evidence for something, I just say, "Fine, I don't know. Simple as that." That's the scientific view. Religion, however, draws conclusions regardless of the evidence - hence, faith. Moving on.
... or I would if I had time. Watch this space, I'll edit later.
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Fwank Posted: 10:41 May31 2008
Post ID: 2260141
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Is there a reason why we NEED to abide by God's laws (you know, given we actually do have free-will, and not just this bizarre illusion of it) outside of a decent afterlife? Just what is the purpose of serving God and his interests? To avoid an eternal afterlife of suffering?
And it's a sin according to the bible? What was the point of mentioning that? Had anybody at any point ever thought that it wasn't a sin? What isn't a sin according to the bible, anyway?
You know, it doesn't really have anything to do with the bible's lack of evidence of the events it claims to have taken place or anything that complex (although, that's an issue worth noting), but rather, the bible's absolute authority over man and the implications behind giving us the book as guidance.
Pure and simple logical fallacy: both free-will and the bible are the will of God, yet they out right contradict each other (as the sins the bible speaks of are all by-products of free will).
But urghhhh, I'm main frustrated at this one fact; if I asked questions, you'd give me some sort of vague/text book answer just so you won't seem inadequate; I don't care if you seem like you don't know what I'm talking about, answer my questions without bible verses (i.e. explain in your own damn words if you want to explain anything at all)
And it's a sin according to the bible? What was the point of mentioning that? Had anybody at any point ever thought that it wasn't a sin? What isn't a sin according to the bible, anyway?
You know, it doesn't really have anything to do with the bible's lack of evidence of the events it claims to have taken place or anything that complex (although, that's an issue worth noting), but rather, the bible's absolute authority over man and the implications behind giving us the book as guidance.
Pure and simple logical fallacy: both free-will and the bible are the will of God, yet they out right contradict each other (as the sins the bible speaks of are all by-products of free will).
But urghhhh, I'm main frustrated at this one fact; if I asked questions, you'd give me some sort of vague/text book answer just so you won't seem inadequate; I don't care if you seem like you don't know what I'm talking about, answer my questions without bible verses (i.e. explain in your own damn words if you want to explain anything at all)
marielue5 Posted: 13:01 May31 2008
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Is there a reason why we NEED to abide by God's laws (you know, given we actually do have free-will, and not just this bizarre illusion of it) outside of a decent afterlife? Just what is the purpose of serving God and his interests? To avoid an eternal afterlife of suffering?
No not to avoid eternal life suffering, because (since we are talking about the Bible, and what it says) the Bible says that you don't obtain eternal life of paradise through your works, but through God. So no that is not the reason why we abide by God's laws. The reason why we should, however, is because God has a plan for are lives, and if we abide by his laws, and serve him, we can grow in him, and grow in his plan. However if we sin against him, it puts a block in the way of are relationship with him, thus we will not be growing in him, and in his plan. This is the way christians look at it, however, if you are not a christian, then obveously you couldn't care less about any of these things because you don't even believe in them.
Also just incase you are wonderng, I'm not saying christians won't sin, christians as well as everyone els sin every day. However we should ask forgivness of are sins, and have a humble forgiving attitude. So anyways just wanted to make sure you knew that I wasn't saying christians are perfect.
And it's a sin according to the bible? What was the point of mentioning that? Had anybody at any point ever thought that it wasn't a sin? What isn't a sin according to the bible, anyway?
Well yes, flareon_dude said that the Bible says nothing about not expressing yourself, and loving who you want to love, then went on to say that homosexuality was ok. So I corrected him, and well, now we are in a debate on whether the Bible is true.
Also another point in mentioning that is because believe it or not some homosexuals are christians, so it was defenently worth mentioning what The Bible had to say on the subject.
Pure and simple logical fallacy: both free-will and the bible are the will of God, yet they out right contradict each other (as the sins the bible speaks of are all by-products of free will).
But urghhhh, I'm main frustrated at this one fact; if I asked questions, you'd give me some sort of vague/text book answer just so you won't seem inadequate; I don't care if you seem like you don't know what I'm talking about, answer my questions without bible verses (i.e. explain in your own damn words if you want to explain anything at all)
Well no actually they don't contradict at all, while God gave us free will, he gave us laws to abide by when doing that will (ten commandments etc.) so I don't understand how that is contradicting at all. It would be like me saying that the laws of the U.S are contradicting because stores around the U.S sell guns, but we shouldn't kill anyone. Yet they supply weapons that enable us to, so they are contradicting.
I can use the Bible as a source if I want to or not, as I've said before just because you don't believe the Bible as being true doesn't mean you can make me not use it, or ban it from being used.
Listen I'm not trying to shove my moral views down your throat, I'm not trying to sound like some stuck up smart person. I am, however, trying to tell you that God loves you, and he died on the cross for you, and through him you can obtain a eternity of peace and love. That is my main point in coming to this forum, and if I can at least plant a seed I'm happy with that, however I feel as though if I fail to provide you people with scientific evidence that supports the Bibles truths then I won't be able to do so, so thats all I'm trying to do right now, with this debate.
Also am I saying that science in general(all science) is wrong? No that is not at all what I'm saying, I'm simply challenging a scientific theory.
Also shadow_lord I won't reply to your post till later, preferably till I get done watching more of thoughs vids made by thunderf00t, and untill you edit your post again.
« Last edited by marielue5 on May 31st 2008 »
No not to avoid eternal life suffering, because (since we are talking about the Bible, and what it says) the Bible says that you don't obtain eternal life of paradise through your works, but through God. So no that is not the reason why we abide by God's laws. The reason why we should, however, is because God has a plan for are lives, and if we abide by his laws, and serve him, we can grow in him, and grow in his plan. However if we sin against him, it puts a block in the way of are relationship with him, thus we will not be growing in him, and in his plan. This is the way christians look at it, however, if you are not a christian, then obveously you couldn't care less about any of these things because you don't even believe in them.
Also just incase you are wonderng, I'm not saying christians won't sin, christians as well as everyone els sin every day. However we should ask forgivness of are sins, and have a humble forgiving attitude. So anyways just wanted to make sure you knew that I wasn't saying christians are perfect.
And it's a sin according to the bible? What was the point of mentioning that? Had anybody at any point ever thought that it wasn't a sin? What isn't a sin according to the bible, anyway?
Well yes, flareon_dude said that the Bible says nothing about not expressing yourself, and loving who you want to love, then went on to say that homosexuality was ok. So I corrected him, and well, now we are in a debate on whether the Bible is true.
Also another point in mentioning that is because believe it or not some homosexuals are christians, so it was defenently worth mentioning what The Bible had to say on the subject.
Pure and simple logical fallacy: both free-will and the bible are the will of God, yet they out right contradict each other (as the sins the bible speaks of are all by-products of free will).
But urghhhh, I'm main frustrated at this one fact; if I asked questions, you'd give me some sort of vague/text book answer just so you won't seem inadequate; I don't care if you seem like you don't know what I'm talking about, answer my questions without bible verses (i.e. explain in your own damn words if you want to explain anything at all)
Well no actually they don't contradict at all, while God gave us free will, he gave us laws to abide by when doing that will (ten commandments etc.) so I don't understand how that is contradicting at all. It would be like me saying that the laws of the U.S are contradicting because stores around the U.S sell guns, but we shouldn't kill anyone. Yet they supply weapons that enable us to, so they are contradicting.
I can use the Bible as a source if I want to or not, as I've said before just because you don't believe the Bible as being true doesn't mean you can make me not use it, or ban it from being used.
Listen I'm not trying to shove my moral views down your throat, I'm not trying to sound like some stuck up smart person. I am, however, trying to tell you that God loves you, and he died on the cross for you, and through him you can obtain a eternity of peace and love. That is my main point in coming to this forum, and if I can at least plant a seed I'm happy with that, however I feel as though if I fail to provide you people with scientific evidence that supports the Bibles truths then I won't be able to do so, so thats all I'm trying to do right now, with this debate.
Also am I saying that science in general(all science) is wrong? No that is not at all what I'm saying, I'm simply challenging a scientific theory.
Also shadow_lord I won't reply to your post till later, preferably till I get done watching more of thoughs vids made by thunderf00t, and untill you edit your post again.
« Last edited by marielue5 on May 31st 2008 »
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super craig Posted: 17:31 May31 2008
Post ID: 2260751
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No not to avoid eternal life suffering, because (since we are talking about the Bible, and what it says) the Bible says that you don't obtain eternal life of paradise through your works, but through God. So no that is not the reason why we abide by God's laws. The reason why we should, however, is because God has a plan for are lives, and if we abide by his laws, and serve him, we can grow in him, and grow in his plan. However if we sin against him, it puts a block in the way of are relationship with him, thus we will not be growing in him, and in his plan. This is the way christians look at it, however, if you are not a christian, then obveously you couldn't care less about any of these things because you don't even believe in them.
Wait so if someone lived the 'perfect' life, helped people, the poor etc and all the other usual good stuff, everything the bible agrees are good things but turned around and said that there was no God and that they had merely done that out of kindness then they are screwed when it comes to an afterlife? What I'm getting at is that surely if a gay person lived the 'right' life but for the fact that they are gay should be punished, but a murderer who kills hundreds of people but asks for forgivness will be ok. From where I am sitting the only true way to judge a person is by their works and not by their beliefs.
As for the plan thing surely that conflicts with the free will idea, we can do anything we want...so long as its a certain thing done in a certain way. Its a bit like me giving someone a choice of 3 paths and saying they can chose which ever one they fancy but I've gone and put massive gates at the start of 2 of the paths, it doesn't make sense to me.
It would be like me saying that the laws of the U.S are contradicting because stores around the U.S sell guns, but we shouldn't kill anyone
That is contradicting and as far as I'm concerned should be stopped (well at least a much tighter control)
« Last edited by super craig on May 31st 2008 »
Wait so if someone lived the 'perfect' life, helped people, the poor etc and all the other usual good stuff, everything the bible agrees are good things but turned around and said that there was no God and that they had merely done that out of kindness then they are screwed when it comes to an afterlife? What I'm getting at is that surely if a gay person lived the 'right' life but for the fact that they are gay should be punished, but a murderer who kills hundreds of people but asks for forgivness will be ok. From where I am sitting the only true way to judge a person is by their works and not by their beliefs.
As for the plan thing surely that conflicts with the free will idea, we can do anything we want...so long as its a certain thing done in a certain way. Its a bit like me giving someone a choice of 3 paths and saying they can chose which ever one they fancy but I've gone and put massive gates at the start of 2 of the paths, it doesn't make sense to me.
It would be like me saying that the laws of the U.S are contradicting because stores around the U.S sell guns, but we shouldn't kill anyone
That is contradicting and as far as I'm concerned should be stopped (well at least a much tighter control)
« Last edited by super craig on May 31st 2008 »
Let me be the first to congratulate you on witnessing pure perfection!
marielue5 Posted: 18:30 May31 2008
Post ID: 2260838
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Wait so if someone lived the 'perfect' life, helped people, the poor etc and all the other usual good stuff, everything the bible agrees are good things but turned around and said that there was no God and that they had merely done that out of kindness then they are screwed when it comes to an afterlife? What I'm getting at is that surely if a gay person lived the 'right' life but for the fact that they are gay should be punished, but a murderer who kills hundreds of people but asks for forgivness will be ok. From where I am sitting the only true way to judge a person is by their works and not by their beliefs.
Perhaps I should have said this at the beggining of my post, I appalogize, there are two ways to heaven. One, live a perfect life, two except God's gift of salvation. However it is impossible for a man to live a perfect life, noone ever has, and noone ever will. The Bible says that all have come short of God's glory, all have sinned. It is just are nature to sin, we always will sin, so in effect there is only one way we can get to heaven.
but a murderer who kills hundreds of people but asks for forgivness will be ok
Asks for forgivness, calls upon the name of God, and excepts Gods gift of salvation, then yeah, he will go to heaven.
In the Bible there was a man by the name of Saul, he was a mass murderer, who targeted christians the most. Later in Sauls life the Holy spirit convicted him, and he excepted God's gift of salvation(became a christian) then changed his name to Paul. If you read anything in Acts, or many of the other books of the Bible. Paul went on to become one of the most effective witnesses that proclaimed God's word, and led many to the Lord. And the Bible has referred to him as a christian many times. So yes, by the Bibles standerds you can do any sin, and still be able to except God's gift of salvation.
Now don't get me wrong, a homosexual can ask for forgivness as well, and also except God's plan of salvation, as I said, by the Bibles standerds you can do any sin, and still be able to except Gods plan of salvation.
Again this is the biblical view, I think your post was asking me questions based on what the Bible says, thats why I'm answering them based on what the Bible says. Just making sure you know why I'm posting Bible verses, because it seems like here lately, people will post false things on what the Bible says, I correct them, then everyone is asking me why I brought the Bible in when all I was doing was correcting what that person said about the Bible. After that people will jump on trying to prove the Bible wrong, thus the argument I'm having with shadow_lord now.
That is contradicting and as far as I'm concerned should be stopped (well at least a much tighter control)
Ok let me take it a step further. You can actually kill someone with a tennis racket, does that mean the U.S is contradicting its self my selling tennis rackets, yet telling people not to kill each other.
Contradicting is saying the opposite of a statement, if I told a child not to eat thoughs cookies, yet there were cookies on the kitchen table, did I say the opposite of what I just said? No.
« Last edited by marielue5 on May 31st 2008 »
Perhaps I should have said this at the beggining of my post, I appalogize, there are two ways to heaven. One, live a perfect life, two except God's gift of salvation. However it is impossible for a man to live a perfect life, noone ever has, and noone ever will. The Bible says that all have come short of God's glory, all have sinned. It is just are nature to sin, we always will sin, so in effect there is only one way we can get to heaven.
but a murderer who kills hundreds of people but asks for forgivness will be ok
Asks for forgivness, calls upon the name of God, and excepts Gods gift of salvation, then yeah, he will go to heaven.
In the Bible there was a man by the name of Saul, he was a mass murderer, who targeted christians the most. Later in Sauls life the Holy spirit convicted him, and he excepted God's gift of salvation(became a christian) then changed his name to Paul. If you read anything in Acts, or many of the other books of the Bible. Paul went on to become one of the most effective witnesses that proclaimed God's word, and led many to the Lord. And the Bible has referred to him as a christian many times. So yes, by the Bibles standerds you can do any sin, and still be able to except God's gift of salvation.
Now don't get me wrong, a homosexual can ask for forgivness as well, and also except God's plan of salvation, as I said, by the Bibles standerds you can do any sin, and still be able to except Gods plan of salvation.
Again this is the biblical view, I think your post was asking me questions based on what the Bible says, thats why I'm answering them based on what the Bible says. Just making sure you know why I'm posting Bible verses, because it seems like here lately, people will post false things on what the Bible says, I correct them, then everyone is asking me why I brought the Bible in when all I was doing was correcting what that person said about the Bible. After that people will jump on trying to prove the Bible wrong, thus the argument I'm having with shadow_lord now.
That is contradicting and as far as I'm concerned should be stopped (well at least a much tighter control)
Ok let me take it a step further. You can actually kill someone with a tennis racket, does that mean the U.S is contradicting its self my selling tennis rackets, yet telling people not to kill each other.
Contradicting is saying the opposite of a statement, if I told a child not to eat thoughs cookies, yet there were cookies on the kitchen table, did I say the opposite of what I just said? No.
« Last edited by marielue5 on May 31st 2008 »
Pokemon DS record since return to sc 29-3
fc 0301-9016-8239
fc 0301-9016-8239
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