NFL - Discussion Thread

Congrats on making post #2000 in this thread.

From reading & mock drafts it seems Miami will either draft Vea, Smith, or Mayfield, in that order of likelihood. Miami have to fill a hole; any hole on defense.

I'm sure Hogan cost next to no money, so it means very little. Washington (and everyone) knew Hogan was going to get dumped, so he quickly got out and was desperate for a home.

Even after what I've said in the past, now I think Washington need to wait until next draft to get a QB. There's very little chance they can get one now anyways. Alex Smith will play for probably 2 more seasons. Season 1 it will be Smith, McCoy, & Hogan in that order. Season 2 it will be Smith, Draftee, & McCoy (with Hogan being cut). Season 3 it will be Draftee, Unknown, & Unknown (with McCoy possibly being cut).

If Washington keep to this script it makes what they've been doing look pretty smart. Smith is a very capable starter and will be able to keep Washington above 4 wins a season and stop heavy criticism of the team's form. Meanwhile while they tread water and do nothing in terms of playoff contention, this draft and next draft they can build a team for Draftee to play around. And when Smith retires, Draftee will be ready to send Washington on an upward trajectory. And worst-case scenario Draftee is a bust, Washington will have the option to keep McCoy or Hogan around in Season 3 if they wish. Remember, Hogan has played 0 games outside of the QB Graveyard. Who knows what he can actually do.

« Last edited by Matt77 on Apr 10th 2018 »

You've got a point there Matt, just looked at Kevin Hogan's college career and the stats aren't bad. To begin with he went to Stanford which is a top college and holds several of the records there and has a career passing efficiency of 154.6. I wonder if in system that suits him with a decent corp of recievers he may become half decent. It happened to Steve Young when he left the Tampay Bay Yucks and joined the SF49rs and learnt from Montana.

I agree with you 100% on the quarterback situation at Washington. If the skins get an 8-8 record I'll be happy, realistically though it will probably be 5-11.

It's not the 2000th post that amazes me Matt, its the fact that the NFL thread has had 41,200 views over the last couple of years, that's a lot of people reading our comments.

Sadly I think most of those views are just bots/sales people/random users. But who knows, maybe we get a better audience than the fools on NFL.com.

I won't be surprised if Kizer, Hogan, & Kessler all do well for the rest of their backup/low-level starter careers. Kizer learns from Rodgers in Green Bay & Kessler goes to a successful team like Jacksonville. Hogan clearly is the most uncertain of the lot, but I will point out I never hear anyone complaining about Washington's o-line. Protection is very important.

It will be interesting to see how the QB situation pans out in Jacksonville. Bortles is 100% the starting QB right now, but if the unlikely event of an injury occurs, he could be in trouble. I'd say Kessler, who posted positive stats at the QB Graveyard, can do well at Jacksonville. And if he comes in and does well (or better than Bortles) then there will be a very interesting situation.

Washington will get about 5-11 like you say. Not because they're awful though. But because yet again they have been given arguably the hardest schedule in the NFL. Last season if they were given a soft schedule they would've easily been a playoff team. Remember my comparison with PIT's schedule? Washington just have to hang in there. Any ideas who the QBs of draft 2019 are?

You've got more confidence than me in those ex Cleveland quarterbacks. I think this time next year all three will be out of the league. Things have changed in the NFL from what I remember thirty years ago, back then a quarterback was given a couple of seasons to learn the system and was eased in gently behing a veteran starter. These days unless you are a first round draft choice who if they are lucky are given a season the quarterback is expected to put up stellar numbers straight away otherwise they are history. All the great quarterbacks of the past were given time making dreadful errors when they did start, the only one who I can think off who started fast out of the blocks was Dan Marino who ripped up the record books when coach Shula gave him the nod in week 6 of his rookie season. Mind you, to this day I still maintain Marino is the best passer of the football I have ever seen. It's a shame he never won a Super Bowl.

Kizer is a clear upgrade from Brett Hundley in Green Bay. He'll keep his backup job for a while. Kessler is a clear upgrade from Chad Henne in Jacksonville too. Hogan is in trouble though. Also, always remember one thing about these QBs. They came from the QB Graveyard.

I liked that Cleveland gave Kizer a full 16 games to start, and while initially his numbers were putrid, towards the end of the season some 300+ yard games came in once Josh Gordon came back. His accuracy needs to improve though. To me he's a carbon copy of Lamar Jackson except is a year ahead. One day Rodgers is going to retire, and when he does there may be room for Kizer for a season or two.

Remember 9 months ago Bortles & Henne were literally 50/50 for the starting job. Bortles did have an improved season, but if Jacksonville see someone they like they should not hesitate to move on from mediocre play. Moving from Cleveland to Jacksonville would do wonders for a young QB's play like Kessler.

I agree QBs aren't given a lot of time to perform. I think it's smart for teams to, when they draft a QB, make them sit for pretty much the entire season, perhaps bringing them in for a game or two (like with Mahomes). QBs like Hogan & Kessler were thrown in at random times when they either weren't ready or had no consistency.

There's six quarterbacks in next years draft that have a chance of making it in the pros. The first two on my list are projected to go in the first two rounds and are the best of the bunch and will go early. The other four will likely be taken between rounds 3-5. Basically, Drew Lock is the top prospect, I heard Charlie Casserly say that if he was in the 2018 draft he would be the best quarterback. I personally haven't seen him play, all I know is he opted for another year in college.

Drew Lock, Missouri
Clayton Thorson, Northwestern
Shea Patterson, Michigan
Jacob Eason, Washington
Jarrett Stidham, Auburn
Deondre Francois, Florida State

I don't think that Kevin Hogan is a long term investment for the Redskins, if they do bad in 2018 they'll be looking at Lock and Thorson in next years draft. I think Miami will be also.

Geez, sounds like an awful crop next season. The build up to that draft will be so lackluster after this draft's build up. I felt like that was out chance for a QB, but perhaps Miami need to take Mayfield if he's available at #11. Washington are in big trouble unless they trade up next draft.

Bucky Brooks has officially gone senile.

I think you may be right Matt. Mason Rudolph will be about in the second round, the Bills could probably pick him up then, they've got enough picks to move up a few spots if necessary. No way are they taking him with a first.

There?s talk of Dez Bryant going to either N.Y. Giants or the Redskins. I hope it?s not Washington, the guy?s trouble and he?s on the decline. I don?t think the Giants would take him, they?ve got enough problems with Beckham Jnr. It would be fun to watch the Giants though if Beckham was one side and Bryant the other and Barkley was in the backfield with Manning at quarterback. That would cause problems for every team in the NFL, who do you double team?

I'd say only a SB contender should consider taking Dez. He's a solid enough player even though his form has dropped, but with a premier QB passing to him it could give him another chance. I've been reading that Washington is probably the most likely landing spot for him, but they listed about 10 different clubs as options. He wouldn't be a terrible option for Washington in the short term. Having injury-prone & inconsistent, but still talented players like Bryant, Crowder, Doctson, Reed, & Thomspon gives you the potential to do terribly and finish 3-13, or have a breakout year and finish 12-4.

Have you seen what the Redskins are planning in the draft? They're looking to draft down to the end of the first round to pick up Da'Ron Payne and then trade up with someone else at the end of the first round with the third round pick they get for trading down from the 13th pick and getting Derrius Guice. A lot of its and buts I know but it is possible. That would be outstanding trading to get those two quality players in the first round.

It's very possible and would be very smart. Among all the chaos surrounding them with teams trying to trade up, they have the perfect opportunity to bait a team into a very good deal for Washington. The latest mock draft I saw had Washington picking Guice at #13, and while it's extremely unlikely this will happen, it clearly shows the experts recognise that Washington are showing interest in Guice.

I totally agree with what you're suggesting Washington may/should do. The main candidates for Guice are Indy & Detroit, but most mock drafts have Detroit bizarrely avoiding RBs like the plague. If Indy trade down there's the possibility they go for Guice before Washington, but Indy have bigger problems to address. Washington definitely should look at Guice, but they need other good players, and getting an early 2nd rounder gives them that player. If they can't get him, they need to still draft a RB somewhere. Hunt & Kamara came from nowhere to be instant impact players.

Like I keep saying, if Washington are smart in their next 2-3 drafts, they will most certainly be on the rise by 2021. The bulk of their drafts should be bulking up the o-line. I think it's one of the most underrated positions in the NFL. If you have an A-grade o-line, you protect your QB from injury (Luck had no protection and now his career is nearly over) and give them plenty of time to throw (Dak Prescott had a passer rating of 104 in his rookie season). It's simple really. RB, o-line, defense, pass rush, QB.

« Last edited by Matt77 on Apr 19th 2018 »

One week until the draft. How many QBs will go on day one? How many trades will take place on said night?

Wait, the draft doesn't finish in one day?

Since I don't know what day one is, I'll just go by the 1st round. I'd say the big 4 all go in the 1st, with Lamar Jackson an early to mid 2nd rounder. A team could get desperate in the 1st, but it would be smart to not waste a 1st round pick on a boom or bust prospect. Cleveland could easily go with Barkley at 1, Chubb at 4, & Jackson at 33.

No Matt, it lasts three days, basically the whole weekend but obviously it?s the first day that most people are interested in. We?ve seen hundreds of mock drafts over the last few months and it makes me laugh to think not one person will have got the first round correct, there?s just so many possible combinations. Even now I bet nobody gets the first 6 picks correct.

Matt: The first round is on day one of the draft, the first of three days it is covered for. ;)

I think five QBs will go in the First Round. I don't think Lamar Jackson is worthy of a First Round Pick, especially having such an incredibly low Wonderlic Score, but I know some team will get desperate and choose him. If some team at the end of the First Round is stupid enough to select the future bust, no good backup known as Rudolph, then six could possibly go on day one.

I'm going to throw out the number of seven in terms of trades during the first round, but it all depends how the QBs fall and who will jump to grab them.

Buffalo could trade to #2, #5, or #6
Miami could trade to #5 or #6
NE could trade to #8-#11
Baltimore could trade to #8-#11
Cleveland could trade up to the early 1st round, or trade down from their #4 pick
Indy could trade down to #12 & #22
Denver could trade down to #11, #12, or #13 (plus an extra pick)
Oakland could trade down to a mid-1st round pick
NY Giants could trade back to #12 & #22 (plus at least 4 extra picks)
Washington could trade up to #5 or #6
Philly could trade down to the early 2nd round
Chicago could trade down to a mid-1st round pick
Minnesota could trade down to the 2nd round
New Orleans could trade up to #8-#11
Carolina could trade up to Seattles's 1st rounder
Seattle will trade down to the 2nd round
Arizona could trade up to #5, #6, or #8-#11

There WILL be at least 7 trades with all these possibilities.

« Last edited by Matt77 on Apr 20th 2018 »

I think Washington will trade down if anything unless they are looking for a quality player in the secondary which is a possibility now that Breland and Cravens are gone. Scandrick has been brought in but he?s not much use, he?s just there because of his experience. I?m hoping that the Redskins go for Guice with pick 13 to balance the offense. They need a big back for first and second down to take some of the pressure off of Smith, I don?t think Perine is the answer, he?s too slow for the NFL in my opinion.

I hope the Redskins make some wise decisions in this draft, this year is a great opportunity to strengthen the squad for years to come with the quality of players available. I can?t but help think if the Redskins had of let Cousins go last year they would have finished 3-13 and be in a prime position now to pick up one of four top quarterbacks. Now they?ve got a 13 year veteran who has been cast off by two NFL teams.

I?d like to see Miami trade up to 5 and pick up one of the top quarterbacks, if it happens your guess as to which one they? pick up would be as good as mine. I?m not even sure Darnold will go 1 now, all the talk says it will be Allen.

I agree Guice should be good, but you've got to remember the QB and RB can do very little if they don't have a good o-line helping them out. In a rebuild, the first thing you should focus on is the o-line. Then when you bring in your young QB and new RB, they will do well. Dak Prescott turned into an average QB when his o-line got injured. Nick Foles became a SB MVP due to an elite o-line too. Once an o-line is in place, then the focus should be RB.

That's a good point about not letting Cousins go. They must've hoped they would have success and change his mind about the club. Jay Gruden seems to think his squads are amazing and are destined for playoffs, every year (including this coming season). With the schedule they had last season they would've been toast with Colt McCoy. Wins against Oakland, Seattle, & LA Rams would've been cancelled, giving them a minimum 4-12 finish. They would've held pick 3 (based on higher strength of schedule).

I really don't want Miami picking a QB in the first two rounds. Firstly Tannehill may recover from his injury properly and get back to his 2016/17 form. Secondly our o-line is inconsistent and old, our secondary is patchy, & we have next to no pass rush. There are too many holes. Like I said with Washington, the o-line is very important when rebuilding, which is exactly what Miami are going (again). If we draft a QB, Tannehill will get killed on the field. I guess that would be fair though; hang out a guy to dry who loves your team and pulled the hard yards while incompetency from the organisation ruined any chance he had to succeed.

It's a matter of sacrificing 2 pretty good picks to get a QB who will play in the 2019/20 season behind a patchy o-line. Yes the QB should be good, but what if he is a bust? It will set Miami's rebuild back 2 years.

I'm hearing more and more about Allen being the #1 pick. This is absolutely horrific. Allen is a boom or bust prospect like Jackson. He is less of a risk than Jackson, but Allen is a guy who has NEVER thrown with over 56% accuracy. When he enters the NFL this completion rate should decrease too, until he gets used to his surroundings. The boom side says he could be the best QB in the NFL within 2-3 seasons, but the bust says he will fail miserably. And I honestly believe Cleveland are going to take Allen with the #1 pick, and then Chubb with the #4 pick. John Dorsey likes Allen, and has never drafted a RB in the first two rounds of a draft. We could be seeing more Cleveland incompetence.