NFL - Discussion Thread

Dennis. Guice is not worth a 1st Round Pick. If you want him, trade up in the second to get him. Get the best player available.

Matt: Yeah, rumor has it that that the Browns are like 75% going with Allen, and I agree completely with your assessment. If I was going with a QB, it would be Darnold.

It's possible Cleveland will go with Allen to bait NY Giants into picking Darnold and not Chubb/Barkley. From what I've heard NY Giants are much more likely to pick a QB if it's Darnold that's available.

To be honest getting Allen, Chubb, and then Sony Michel wouldn't be a bad boost. Personally I'd go Darnold, Barkley (assuming he's available), & then o-line with their multiple 2nd and 3rd round picks. If Barkey isn't available then take Chubb. And if Chubb isn't available then Barkley will be. With smart drafting Cleveland will surely be back to the playoffs in the 2019/20 season.

Less than 10 hours now. When I wake up it's likely most if not all the 1st round picks will be done, but if I can be bothered I'll wake up early and follow it.

The latest rumors I've been seeing everywhere have Cleveland picking Mayfield with the #1 pick. I'd hope this isn't true; Mayfield can definitely play and has natural instincts for a QB, but he is too short, and short QBs typically fail at NFL level.

Cleveland can't get cute. Simply draft Darnold at 1, and Barkley/Chubb at 4. No trading down. No adventurous choices.

This is my final 1-10 mock draft (who I would choose and what trades I would make, not who/what I think will be done):

Cleveland - Sam Darnold
NY Giants - Josh Rosen
NY Jets - Baker Mayfield
Cleveland - Saquon Barkley
Buffalo (from Denver) - Josh Allen
Indy - Bradley Chubb
Tampa Bay - Derwin James
Chicago - Quenton Nelson
San Francisco - Roquan Smith
Oakland - Denzel Ward

Lets see how many I get correct...

« Last edited by Matt77 on Apr 26th 2018 »

Here?s what I think is gonna happen, barring no trades...

1) Mayfield/Darnold
2) Barkley
3) Darnold/Mayfield
4) Chubb
5) Nelson

After the inappropriate tweets surfaced overnight for Allen, I think #1 is between Mayfield and Darnold. Right now, all I?m hearing is Mayfield will be the pick. If so, the Browns screw up again. Darnold is far better.

F***ing hell. Cleveland did it again. What an AWFUL draft.

1 - Baker Mayfield
2 - Saquon Barkley
3 - Sam Darnold
4 - Denzel Ward
5 - Bradley Chubb
6 - Quenton Nelson
7 - Josh Allen (BUF)
8 - Roquan Smith
9 - Mike Mcglinchy
10 - Josh Rosen (ARI)
11 - Minkah Fitzpatrick
12 - Vita Vea (TB)
13 - Da'ron Payne
14 - Marcus Davenport (NO)
15 - Kolton Miller (OAK)

I was surprised to see NY Giants pass on a QB. Eli is a below average QB right now, and with no successor they need to find one ASAP.

Cleveland...oh dear. Same old Browns. *Sigh* They could've selected Barkley at 1, and Mayfield at 4. And if Mayfield was picked by NY Jets, they could've gone for Allen, who their GM liked. But oh my god. Denzel Ward at 4...Such an awful decision. I'm sure he's a good player, but they passed on Chubb...

I had high hopes for Cleveland, but this looms as the final nail in the coffin for this awful franchise. Mayfield was very, very good in college, but as we know short QBs don't have success in the NFL very often. *Sigh*

I was very glad we didn't pick Lamar Jackson and be stupid. Minkah Fitzpatrick looks very solid. I think that's a very good decision.

I want to point out a sneaky selection Atlanta were able to do that will hold them in very good shape. Calvin Ridley looked like being a mid-1st rounder, but Atlanta nabbed him up. The dynamic offense of Atlanta could be returning sooner than I thought.

Baltimore just traded with Philly to select Lamar Jackson. I like that trade a lot. Flacco is out the door soon, and they have RG3 & Jackson waiting to take over. To me Mayfield and Jackson have the same risk attached to them. Both have huge upside, but there are big worries too.

« Last edited by Matt77 on Apr 26th 2018 »

Big Winners of Day 1:
Broncos - Bradley Chubb
Giants - Saquon Barkley (only if Manning can shape up)
Bills - Both Josh Allen & Tremaine Edwards
Cardinals - Josh Rosen
Jets - Sam Darnold
Falcons - Calvin Ridley
Chargers - Derwin James
Jaguars - Taven Bryan
Packers - Not For Pick, But Trading With Saints To Obtain 2019 1st Round Pick

Miami made a good selection with Fitzpatrick. We need basically ever position, so any pick would've been fine. Redskins did okay with Payne, but I think they could've dropped back a few slots to nab him. Before the Falcons picked, I literally called them drafting Ridley. My dad and cousin were excited to hear my prediction, even more so to see the Falcons draft him (sinc emy little brother is a Falcon Fan).

« Last edited by Warrior13 on Apr 26th 2018 »

Cleveland are never going to win a Super Bowl, I don't know who it is who makes the decisions for that organisation but whoever it is should be fired. I make Matt righ, take Barkley number one and the best quarterback available at number four which would have been Mayfield anyway. I understand they took Denzel Ward at pick 4 because that was the area they needed the most help but they could have got a cornerback in the second round.

I bet Miami are annoyed the Cardinals one spot above them drafted Josh Rosen, I would have liked the quarterback to have gone to the Dolphins personally. Finkah Fitzpatrick is a good player but Rosen develops into a pro bowl quarterback Miami will regret not drafting up a spot to take him.

Washington got backed into a corner when the Giants took Barkley, because now along with Elliott of the Cowboys they face two lethal running backs four times a year with the worst run stop game in the NFL. With Jonathan Allen coming back from injury and now Da'ron Payne his forma Alabama team mate on the same line the Redskins should be able to get out of the bottom spot.

Derius Guice is still up for grabs, I was surprised to see Rashaad Penny and Sony Michel go before him. I wonder why that is? Maybe it was because he spoke out about being sexually harrassed at the combine and got labelled a trouble maker by the scouts. Anyway, Cleveland could get him in the second round to make amends for letting Barkley go.

Thinking about the Browns number 4 pick, if like the experts are claim Denzel Ward turns out to be as good as Deon Sanders then it would be an excellent pick as that guy was the best 'shutdown corner' to play in the NFL.


« Last edited by Sanzano on Apr 27th 2018 »

I'm glad we didn't get to pick Rosen. He was extremely arrogant and disappointed that he fell to pick 10, saying that the previous 9 teams should've drafted him (including Indy, Chicago, & SF lol). He could easily become a locker room cancer, and it's far better for Miami to have picked Fitzpatrick; a player that can play multiple defensive positions. For Arizona it's a decent move because if Rosen is a bust it's not going to hurt them since they have one of the better defenses in the NFL, and generally have less holes than Miami.

It seems John Dorsey is delusional and wont chance his ways. I pointed out that he doesn't draft RBs early ever, but he needed to see there was an opportunity for Cleveland. Carlos Hyde could play alongside Barkley and teach him some useful tricks. Assuming this happened NY Giants would have 100% gone for Chubb. They had the chance to pick Darnold in reality but passed. NY Jets would've still picked Darnold too. Then Cleveland could choose Mayfield at 4. Running back is a much more important position, and Barkley was graded the best player in the draft.

Mayfield: (6.03) Graded the third-best QB

Strengths -
Tough and competitive.
Plays with fiery demeanor and massive chip on his shoulder.
Teammates rally around him on and off field.
In complete command of his offense and has improved with each season.
Light on his feet with quick setup in pocket.
Has good pre-snap plan.
Eyeballs and eliminates safeties to isolate man coverage on his receiver.
Quick processor from read to read.
Responds suddenly to what is there.
Pitch and catch accurate if you allow it.
Underrated arm talent.
Expedite from off-platform with tight release and zip.
Drives with lower body for added velocity.
Accurate on all three levels.
Completed 53 percent of his throws of 21-plus yards over last two years.
Drops touch throws over top of linebackers trailing in coverage.
Has improv talent.
Uses mobility to buy time to make plays.
Effective when he breaks contain and will probe for explosive play.
Completed 67 percent when on the move.
Rises to the occasion.
Posted elite production and efficiency as passer in the red-zone.

Weaknesses -
Falls short of size marks for traditional early-round quarterback.
Short with drop-down release makes him more susceptible to batted passes.
Benefited from spread scheme that created huge passing windows to throw to.
Will see increased importance on post-snap reads.
Needs to improve full-field scanning.
Can be thrown off rhythm by delayed blitz packages and disguised coverages.
Footwork is erratic.
Creeps up in pocket towards pressure.
Ball placement wanes when he tries to gun it.
Deep balls hang on him.
Can't afford any delay in deep release to beat safety over the top.
Needs to eliminate his back foot throws.
Desire to make plays will lead to unnecessary sacks.
Has to prove he can reign in and control on-field edge and cockiness.

Summary - Spread quarterbacks have had limited success as have small quarterbacks. Mayfield falls into both categories and has to prove he can transcend those perceived deficiencies on the next level. Having complete command of the Oklahoma offense isn't an automatic precursor for NFL success, but Mayfield's ability to process, extend plays and throw with accuracy give him a good shot. He'll be somewhat scheme-dependent so whoever takes him will need to be willing to build their offense around his strengths.

Looking at his draft notes again, there are some very solid strengths that I missed. He's a solid player, but I just can't go past the height issue. College and the NFL are very different. His "erratic" footwork looks like a problem too.

Cleveland do have a chance to make up for it with their picks coming up. They'll pick first on Day 2 with pick 33, and they'll have a long time to reevaluate what they need.

Oh I feel for you Dennis. Part of the reason I wanted Cleveland to get Barkley was so that NY Giants didn't. If it's any consultation Philly's running game will digress very soon, as LeGarrete Blount has gone to Detroit, and Ajayi's knees look like ending his career much earlier than most players. Washington should look to trade either to pick before or on Indy's 2nd rounder and pick Guice.

Personally I just think Guice was overrated pre-draft. Speaking out about those issues should make GMs admire that he wont be silent if he thinks something isn't right.

« Last edited by Matt77 on Apr 27th 2018 »

If I was the Browns, I would have gone Barkley #1 as well. You still would have gotten Darnold or Mayfield at #4. There was no need to draft Ward at #4 as this draft is loaded with DBs. Seriously, Josh Jackson is still available, and he should have been Top 20-25.

Really we should've seen this bonehead decision coming. I thought their awful decision would be picking Allen at #1, but consolidating with Chubb at #4. If they had gone Mayfield and Chubb it would have been ok, but it's 2 bonehead decisions in the top 4 picks. Cleveland missed out on Carson Wentz and Deshaun Watson in order to eventually get those picks, and they screwed it up.

I can't help but wonder if there are people in powerful positions that have payed off Cleveland staff to contribute to these awful picks. In reality if you were Pittsburgh and you somehow did this, it would be brilliant cause you'd start 2-0 every season. I just can't work out any other way they could screw this up. For the past decade Cleveland have made awful calls, and they NEVER learn.

I'd like to see Miami draft Rudolph in the 2nd round to get it done and secure him. Yes he's not likely to be a star, but you never know with 2nd-4th round QBs. Russel Wilson was taken in the 2nd round. Tannehill is on borrowed time sadly, and when he is eventually cut, there will be Rudolph and Fales waiting to compete for the starting job. In reality it's better to wait until the 3rd round, but I can't help but think New England are looking into him for their late 2nd round pick.

Rudolph to the Steelers in the 3rd Round. Seems about right, but I still think he's a bust.

Miami is having a solid draft. Not fantastic, but really good. Fitzpatrick has great work ethic, Gesicki is a freak of nature at TE, and Baker is a really good strong side cover linebacker.

Guice to the Redskins at the end of the second round. They said he fell because he was late to meetings with a number of players. Kick him into shape, Dennis. ;)

Lets hope our TE curse ends. It's unlikely though. I fully expect this guy to be a bust. Not that I think he's bad, but that TEs don't survive in Miami. But I agree it's a good draft. By the time we get our new QB (whoever it may be) we need to have filled the holes we have. The running game is sorted and we still have good talent at WR, so it's really TE, o-line, and secondary. With each of our 3 picks we've addressed each of these weaknesses.

Washington did really well to trade down and still get Guice, and getting SF's 3rd rounder as a bonus. Generally they said Guice is just a bit immature. In reality, if you sort out those issues he is a steal, as he had the talent to be picked in the 1st round. I'm a big fan of taking someone even if they have injury or off-field problems.

Even though Baker looks good, we had the chance to select Rudolph before Pittsburgh did. I'm hoping we at least draft A QB this draft. And Warrior perhaps Rudolph wont be a bust. Pittsburgh drafted Rudolph's main college weapon in the 2nd round. I'm big on chemistry between players, and this is a perfect case.

Matt: I'm glad we skipped Rudolph; no use wasting a pick. If Tannehill struggles next year, then get your QB in next year's draft. If you don't like a guy, which was obvious for the Dolphins in regards for Rudolph, then you shouldn't select said player. Baker was a far better pick for us at this point.

Yeah actually, that's fair.

This draft is going better for the Redskins than I dared expect. They actually picked up both players I was hoping they would plus a 3rd round Offensive Tackle which was a nice bonus seeing As they started the day without a pick in that round. Da?Ron Payne reunited with his Alabama team mates Jonathan Allen and Ryan Anderson should help solidify the defense against the run. Getting Darrius Guice is a steal, this is the same guy the experts were debating a couple of months ago whether he was better than Barkley. The general consensus of opinion was Barkley was more explosive but Guice was more punishing, as for the immaturity tag, come on the guy?s in his early twenties. He can?t be more immature than Elliot. Guice and Chris Thompson in the backfield all of a sudden make the Redskins backfield look dangerous as those two players compliment each other perfectly.

Not sure what Jon Gruden is up to with the Raiders, from the outside looking in it appears he has lost the plot in this Draft.

Nice to see Miami filling some holes with quality players.

San Fransisco could be a team to watch this season, they?re quietly putting together a good team.

Atlanta all of a sudden look dangerous again with the addition of Ridley.

Very true. Elliot is as immature as they come but is a beast.

Personally I think Cleveland and Tampa Bay made mistakes passing on Guice. He's a slider simply because of rumors of immaturity and incidents with GMs, and other strange rumors which are probably not true. It's similar to Joe Mixon at the Bengals. He could've easily been a mid-1st rounder but he had some off-field issues around drugs I think it was. Cincy then took him in the mid-2nd round and wasn't bad in his first season.

Arizona have also scored big if Rosen can put his attitude aside when he's on the field. Take that away and he is clearly the 2nd best prospect. To slip to #10 was so surprising. Arizona barely had to give up anything to move up.

Dennis I think Jon Gruden has lost the plot full stop. I know you're a big fan of his, but I see him as a washed up coach that is slightly overrated. I feel that aside from Belichick, older coaches are not the way to go. Look what Sean McVay did at LA Rams. They were a cellar-dweller that over the past decade had one of the worst combined W-L records, and now they are the Superbowl favourites. Players want to come to LA now, and the fans in LA will actually start turning up to games. Older coaches struggle to understand the way younger players think and act. Unless their punter was a total d head Gruden was just precious and got rid of someone he didn't like, forgetting that he was an elite punter. It's like you say too, players these days don't have as much personality, and King had some.

San Francisco are definitely on the way up, but Garoppolo is insanely overrated. Yes he's 5-0 and the team want to play for him, but he has a 1:1 TD:INT ratio. When Beathard was playing SF were dreadful, but when Garoppolo arrived people forgot that the same players went out there. He's not a godly, elite QB yet. We need to give him 5 more games to prove it.

Perhaps it's not such bad news for Washington's 2018/19 season hopes after all. Remember all the o-line and defensive injuries Washington had last season. They still finished 7-9 (could've been 8-8 but they didn't care in week 17) despite one of the hardest schedules in the NFL. That's also despite dropping leads over KC and NO, and flopping against an Elliot-less Cowboys squad. With the o-line especially repairing, Guice, Thompson, & Perine should be able to find holes. They'll be able to stop the run better now too, with repairs along with new draftees. And don't forget the WRs and TE. All are injury prone and most missed game time.

The way Jay Gruden was talking and the way the team is drafting says to me that they think Washington have an outside chance at success in the next 2 seasons. It's actually true. Chances are they'll make the divisional round in the best-case scenario, but who knows. Philly were 7-9 before they won it all. Atlanta were 8-8 (2-7 to finish) before they almost won it all.

If we are talking about having great drafts, Green Bay has to be at the top. They got Alexander and Jackson, two players that honestly had a shot of being Top 15 each, all while stealing the Saints First Round Pick for next year.

Yeah, they totally sucked NO in. A first-rounder is an awful decision by them. Green Bay must be loving it. Their success will depend on whether Rodgers can function with a downgraded WR crop. Being the player he is, he should, but none of their picks were offense-focused.

Winners:
Arizona
Atlanta
Chicago
Denver
Green Bay
Indianapolis
LA Chargers
Miami
New England
NY Giants
NY Jets
Tampa Bay
Washington


Okay I Guess:
Baltimore
Buffalo
Carolina
Cincinnati
Cleveland
Dallas
Detroit
Houston
Jacksonville
Kansas City
Minnesota
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh
San Francisco
Seattle
Tennessee


Losers:
LA Rams*
New Orleans
Oakland

* = They only had one pick to work with

There'll be a few that could be switched from winners to good I guess or vice versa but I think the bottom 3 are fair in terms of draft PICKS. That's why I had LA Rams there; they picked once but didn't gain picks. New Orleans payed way too much for Davenport. WAY too much, especially when next draft they'll be looking strongly at a QB. Now they'll have 0 to use to trade up, so they'll either have to pick in the 3rd round or wait yet another year. Oakland got very little from Arizona and then picked someone I've never heard of at #15. They could've stayed at #10 and snagged Fitzpatrick to fix their woeful defense.

I will point out that if Green Bay are both lucky and unlucky, they could be in line to select a QB next draft. Rodgers it 34 and will turn 35 this year, and it's yet to be seen whether his collarbone injury will impact his play in the long term. If they have a miserable year versing MIN, DET, & CHI twice, and NO have a bad year contending with ATL, CAR, & TB, Green Bay will have some very solid picks to use to potentially trade up. It could end up as something like 8 & 10.

« Last edited by Matt77 on Apr 28th 2018 »

Was nice to see Shaquen Griffin get drafted to Seattle to join his brother. Unbelievable that a guy with just one hand still manages to play at a high level and even take INTs. I bet if he had 2 hands he would've been a 2nd rounder. He could be a score for Seattle at #141.

Philly also took a gamble (well not really actually since it'll cost 0) with former Australian NRL player Jordan Mailata (aged 20). He's barely played any games and doesn't know much about the game tbh, but he's 6 foot 8 & 346 pounds. He'll likely flop, but it'll be interesting to see what happens. He has huge upside if it all works out. Pick 233 for him.

« Last edited by Matt77 on Apr 28th 2018 »

Most people give Miami and Washington a B for their drafts. Miami did pretty good selecting this year, but they lost it near the end. Washington made solid pick after solid pick.

Giants get an A. Packers get an A.