NFL - Discussion Thread

Cleveland would have to be smoking crack to give up picks 1 & 4 for injury-prone Andrew Luck. Then again they usually are so they'll probably do the trade. Indy would have picks 1, 3, & 4!!! Barkley, Chubb, & Allen/Rosen would be headed through the doors!!!

With both of us thinking it's a possibility Luck will be traded, and given Indy have done it in the past, it actually looks like it could happen. Cleveland won't give up a 1st round draft pick, let alone two, so they'd need to trade with a different team.

Plenty of people are talking about Jackson, but Rudolph could be a handy draft sneak. Look for teams like Baltimore, LA Chargers, New Orleans, New England, & Jacksonville to pick this guy.

With Landry I feel the relationship between him and the Miami Dolphins organisation is pretty weak, and Miami wanted to make sure if he wanted to leave it wasn't as a free agent. Before the signing it was looking like an 80% chance he'd leave. Warrior, plenty of teams would give up a 1st round pick (late 1st rounder) for Landry. He's been leading the league in receptions for years now and when QBs who aren't Jay Cutler throw to him, he's pretty good and his average yardage goes above 10. He's someone you can pass to when the pressure's on since you know he'll be there as a quick outlet. Chicago were a team seriously interested in Landry since they have 0 passing game.

Sanzano: The franchise tag means nothing in Landrys Case, especially a non exclusive franchise tag. We did it so he couldnt walk away for free. There are so many rumors that Miami doesnt want Landry, that they want to trade him. lol

As for the Luck rumor you heard... That will never happen. Whether Cleveland or another team, no one would even give the Colts a 2nd Round Pick for Luck at this point. He still cannot throw a football due to his shoulder.

Matt: A 1st Rounder for Landry? Of course, but no way two 1st Round Picks. Maybe if Buffalo wanted to steal another of our players, but all the talk is that Buffalo is trying to work out a deal with Indy to jump from 21 & 22 all the way to #3 in order to draft a QB. Obviously, they would need a little more than that, as the 21 & 22 Picks are equivalent in value to roughly the #6 or #7, or so says the draft picks value chart.

It's just that I definitely read somewhere that if Landry walks we get 2 first round picks. I admit it doesn't seem logical but it's what I read, whether it's untrue or not.

Buffalo don't need the #3 pick unless they're hell bent on getting a particular guy. I'd say a trade with Denver to get the #5 pick. That way they don't need to give up extra that you said they'd need to for the #3.

What's your opinion of the top 5 prospects (Darnold, Rosen, Allen, Mayfield, Jackson)? I hear things about Mayfield being a big risk, and the same for Jackson, but then apparently Rosen has some attitude problems. Some mock drafts have Mayfield being taken before the likes of Rosen & Allen though. But also as Dennis said, Jackson won that trophy. And what about Mason Rudolph? Why did he slip down the order? I know that one of the QBs (I forgot which one) also skipped the draft last season I think and instead went to post ordinary stats in more college football. And either the same guy or a different one had some serious completion percentage issues. It's all so confusing.

I think you'll be surprised Warrior13, when healthy Andrew Luck is a top 5 quarterback. I don't know how far away he is at this point from reaching that status. Personally I'd rather have Andrew Luck leading my team than Kirk Cousins and we have all seen how a number of teams are clambering for hes service. The way top quality 'Elite' quarterbacks are being sought after in the NFL Luck may be worth a gamble, after all everyone know's he can play in the league. On February 7, 2018, the surgeon treating Luck stated that Luck would not need any additional surgery.

If there's talk of Landry leaving Miami then it'll probably happen, I just hope the Dolphins get a good something back for him and it doesn't end up like Washington and the Cousins situation. I'm begining to think the Alex Smith trade was a good move now that I'm seeing all these teams recklessly going after unproven college quarterbacks as if they are the next Tom Brady. At least I know Washington have a quarterback who is proven in the league, maybe not elite but he's at least in the next tier.

I've heard the whisperings about Buffalo moving up as well. Not sure it will happen though, they've got to offer Indianapolis more than what's currently on the table. If the Colts get rid of Luck they won't move as they are guaranteed a choice out of at least two of the top quarterbacks in the draft.

Matt, the NFL rules state Miami should get two first round picks for Landry but because he now has the franchise tag it is unlikely to happen as it has made his value drop considerably with any teams that are interested, as things stand Miami would be lucky if they get a second round pick for him.

Matt: As Dennis alluded to, Miami would indeed get two first round picks if another team signs Landry since he has been franchise tagged (Non Exclusive allows him to talk to teams). However, also as Dennis pointed out, there is no way a team will surrender such a price tag for really any WR these days. I don't necessarily agree with Dennis about only being able to get a 2nd Round Pick in return for him, as Landry is like the only third player in NFL History to catch 400 Passes in their first four years in the league. Certainly, a 1st Round Pick has to be in play, even if, like you mentioned, is a Late First Round Pick.

As for Buffalo, it's because they do want one of the QB Prospects. I understand where they are coming from, since some GMs don't really care of either Cousins or Keenum. If they believe one of these QB Draftees could end up being their Franchise Signal Caller, then I see no problem trading up to get him.

When it comes to the QB prospects, I really don't like any of them. If I had to pick just one, I guess I would personally go with Darnold. Mayfield will never have that strong of an arm, but he's a bit of a hot head due to just how competitive he truly is. However, he can galvanize a team better than any of the other prospects. Jackson is another polarizing player; some say he could be like Michael Vick (but even better), while some GMs believe he should switch to WR. Rosen is the most ready of any of the QBs, but he is a California silver spooner that has character concerns on whether he NEEDS and LOVES the game of Football. Darnold has a bit of a weird throwing motion, but his arm is extremely strong and he is really accurate. However, he threw more than 20 INTs last year, which gives you some concern. Allen played at a small college, meaning he didn't play the level of talent as the other guys. He has the strongest arm for a prospect in the last decade, but he is extremely inaccurate most of the time. Other QBs like Falk and Rudolph are pure passers, but they will be nothing more than Career Backups.

If I had to guess, Allen, Darnold, Rosen and Mayfield will all be taken in the the 1st Round. Jackson has a chance to do the same, but some GM would have to fall in love with him being a raw QB Prospect. After those five, everyone else is a Backup at best, maybe a spot starter like Matt Moore has been for the Dolphins over the past five years. But that's it. Again, I would pick Darnold out of all of them if I had to; however, I would rather have Cousins outright.

Dennis: I don't really agree with your assessment, but that's okay. In my eyes, Luck has the POTENTIAL to be a Top 10 or Top 5 QB; however, as his stats show, he's a bit of a pick machine. I think his TD to INT Ratio is like 2-1, which is dangerously close to Favre Land. Couple this with the Shoulder Injury - no matter how much his new doctor would like to give a positive prognosis - and Andrew Luck is as much of a question mark as, say, Ryan Tannehill.

If the NFL rules state something, doesn't it mean it needs to happen, otherwise you're breaking official rules? Miami need to play hard ball and get at least a 1st round draft pick. As I said Chicago were very interested, and since they have a woeful passing game they'd love him on the team. Miami need to start high and ask for the #8 pick. If they say no Miami can throw in a current or future 2nd rounder too. Chicago probably won't be that stupid, but look what they did last season to pick Trubisky, who I'm questionable about.

If somehow Miami can end up with picks 8 & 11 they can trade up with any team early in the draft. Cleveland & Miami could do a straight swap, giving Miami the #4 pick and Cleveland's 2nd rounder, while Cleveland end up with picks 1, 8, & 11. It would give Miami their franchise QB while Cleveland would have access to more young talent.

I really think it is key this trade period to try and offload Landry. It's dangerous to have someone playing for you that doesn't want to. At least test the market and see whether there's any serious interest for Landry.

« Last edited by Matt77 on Mar 1st 2018 »

I dont think youre understanding: no one is going to sign Landry when it would cost them two first round picks under said rule. Instead, Miamis best shot is to try to trade him straight up.

I doubt Chicago would trade #8 for Landry. Even if they did, Miami would be giving the Browns far too much to trade up to only #4. #8 + #11 = more value than #4.

I think the better likelihood would be to package Landry and the #11 and trade with the Colts at #3. That would be fair for both sides, giving Luck a real WR and the Phins their next QB. Should this happen, Miami can trade Tannehill to the highest bidder, but it wont be for much.

Warrior13, if I were a Miami fan I'd be hoping their management were thinking along the same lines as you as that sounds like a good deal all around. Like Matt says, the last thing you want is a high profile player in your team whose heart isn't in it, when that happens its time to get rid of them for the best possible deal.

Interesting post by Warrior13 on the strengths and weaknesses of the crop of quarterbacks in this years draft. I heard somewhere that Lamar Jackson was too short to play quarterback in the NFL and he may be converted to wide reciever. Not sure if that is right though as he is listed as 6 ft 3 in, and I remember Doug Flutie playing during the 80's and 90's being regarded as a midget at 5 ft 10 in but he was still a decent quarterback.

As for Andrew Luck, if he becomes 100% fit and given a good offensive line and recieving corps he could put up some decent numbers. The thing is though I can't remember a quarterback who has gone through what Luck has and made a full recovery. They are all end up like Peyton Manning who returned but was just a shadow of his former self when he went to Denver.

I was thinking, Grapollo going to San Francisco messed up Cousins in a way. If Cousins had of gone to San Francisco he would have been inserted into a system he is familiar with as Kyle Shanahan runs the same system he did at Washington when he was the offensive signal caller there. Wherever Cousins goes now he has to learn a new playbook, get familiar with new wide recievers etc. and he'll be under intense scrutiny from the media by being such a high profile move. And we all know what happens to Cousins when he gets put under pressure...

« Last edited by Sanzano on Mar 1st 2018 »

Dennis: Unfortunately, Miami usually does the opposite of what I think. But I'm sure most fans feel the same about their given teams. lol

Flutie really had no other choice but to play QB. Dude was too slow to play any other position. lol

It was probably a blessing in disguise for Cousins, since the 49ers only gave Garoppolo 137.5 million. Lord knows he will fetch upwards of 35 million should he choose to go for the money with either the Jets or Browns. Browns would be the better of the two in my opinion, as they have WAY more assets than the Jets do at this time, with their most recent draft picks and the stockpile of such they still have.

Warrior13, I have a feeling Cousins will end up in Denver. The reason being is that they are a competant quarterback away from a Super Bowl and if the team is going to make a run for the Lombardi Trophy their time is now. The Broncos can't afford to wait for a rookie to get a couple of NFL season under his belt. If Cousins goes to Cleveland he's not winning anything, he's gone there just for the money. N.Y. Jets like you say offer him no real weapons to work with. I personally if I were Cousins would take less money and go to Denver and at least have a shot at the Super Bowl.

Warrior another article came out today with Gase once again saying Tannehill is the starting QB. While we could still draft a young QB, it means he shouldn't be traded away. He needs at least a season to prove whether 2016/17 was indeed a breakout season or just a fluke.

Denver's defense was hot and cold last season, and when it was cold it was woeful. Conceding a 50-burger is shameful, as is giving up 35 points to Miami (6-10), including 2 safeties. The 'experts' all say that good defenses help out the QB, but the only thing they do is give him more rest. And c'mon, NFL isn't really that tiring compared to most sports around the world. When Cousins steps onto the field, his defense is absent, and watching from the sidelines. Cousins would have a mediocre set of WRs to work with, similar to Washington. Imo it's actually a downgrade in that department.

I'm not sure if there's a deadline as to when you can franchise tag a player, but if there isn't, I just realised that Washington may've pulled off the biggest trick I've ever seen in the draft. They should do what Miami have just done with the surely-departing Landry. By sneakily tagging Cousins now after there's been so much interest generated in him, it would force all those teams (Minnesota, Arizona, Denver, Cleveland, NY Jets, Miami, and on and on) to come up with lots to give Washington. Washington could then play hard ball and ask for 2 first round draft picks (either both now or one future pick) minimum. Then those teams may have to bid higher and offer ridiculous picks to get him. Then Washington could get a high pick and draft a young QB to play for Washington in 1 or 2 years. And if no-one is willing to pick him up, they could reverse their Alex Smith-Kendall Fuller trade bizarrely. The trade period hasn't actually started, so 0 trades have been officially done.

« Last edited by Matt77 on Mar 1st 2018 »

Dennis: Yeah, Denver is definitely in play too. Really all depends if Cousins wants to win or be the highest paid player of all time. No offense, but if were him, I would go for the money due to him having a very finite skill set.

Matt: Gase can say whatever he wants about Tannehill, it does not take away from the fact that the Miami Brass might want a new QB. It is sort of like how we say we want to resign Landry, yet we are doing all we can to trade him. The NFL is quite convoluted. lol

As for the franchise tag... Yes, the deadline, I believe, is mid-March. There were rumors the Redskins might do that, but it appears they have wisely reconsidered. It would far too risky to do such a thing. If Cousins chose not to sign the franchise tender, the Redskins would not be able to trade him AND he would count as 35 million on their Cap. Cousins has all the leverage here.

I get what you say about the franchise tag, but why didn't Landry do that too? Miami have just given him permission to seek a trade too, so they obviously knew Landry wanted out, just as Cousins does. In the past 2 seasons Cousins has been tagged despite rumors he may've wanted a trade. I don't get why Cousins didn't get out when he originally wanted to. If Washington play hard ball and Cousins screws them over, Washington would only have to pay his salary for one season, and it's not like they're gonna be contending for playoffs, let alone the SB.

So, pretty much what you're saying is that a player under the franchise tag can walk out of their deal whenever they like? Like I said above, why didn't Cousins leave when they had that 8-7-1 season?

Miami will say whatever about Landry, because quite frankly I don't think they care too much about him. Gase has faith in Tannehill though. When we were 1-4 after being humiliated at home by Tennessee, our fans chanted for Moore and booed Tannehill. Gase stuck by him and bam, he goes 7-1 before his injury. If Gase likes someone (Jay Cutler for example), he will play them no matter what. I'd be surprised if Tannehill is traded this period.

Matt, I thought that about the Alex Smith trade, I mentioned it in a post when the trade took place. At the time I thought it was strange that the Redskins were showing their cards this early in the game as nothing is definite until mid march and either party can pull at any time before then. I had a sneaky suspicion Washington were testing the waters to find out what teams would give up for Cousins to take advantage nearer the deadline time.

What Warrior13 says is correct, the last thing the Redskins wants is a player they can't shift playing backup and putting in a complaint to the NFL for the way he is being treated. Pulling out of the Alex Smith trade would have been an option for Washington but the rest of the league would have frowned on the team and other teams may have been a bit reluctant to do business with Washington in the future if they feel they couldn't trust the teams verbal agreement.

I was listening to Jay Gruden's assessment of the Redskins at the combine and I think the man is either delusional or taking the Redskins fans for idiots. He claims that now with the team healthy and with a few good draft picks the team will be challenging for the Super Bowl. He actually managed to say it without laughing. When he spoke about the quarterback situation he implied he was looking for a good young signal caller in the draft who could work under Alex Smith for a couple of years before taking over and being the face of the franchise. That part of his interview sounded sensible but how do they move up the draft? They can't possibly be thinking of franchise tagging Cousins to swop positions with Cleveland in the draft to guarantee getting one of the top four...they wouldn't do that would they?

I don't follow Miami closely but from what I do read about the team I get the impression the front office is not convinced Tannehill is their man for whatever reason. I wouldn't be surprised if Miami pick up a quarterback early in the draft. Options could be Mason Rudolph, Chase Litton, Luke Falk or maybe Baker Mayfield if he is still around in the second round.


« Last edited by Sanzano on Mar 2nd 2018 »

Matt: Landry has yet to sign his Franchise Tag as well, meaning Miami couldn't technically trade him until after he does. This, however, doesn't mean Miami can shop him around in hopes of finding a trade partner. After signing your Franchise Tag, like Cousins has done each of the last two years, they are legally obligated to play the entire year until the Franchise Tag expires the following March. There is no way the Redskins can Franchise Tag Cousins again, because if he doesn't sign it, they will lose almost 1/5 of their salary cap towards a player who isn't playing. You just can't do that; your entire roster would suffer. They got Alex Smith, they need to let Cousins go and accept the Compensatory Draft Pick they will get next year for losing him.

Dennis: Yeah... No way the Redskins can win the Super Bowl. They might be able to reach the Playoffs next year, but that's about it. No offense, but they basically for Alex Smith, basically a much older and less expensive version of Kirk Cousins. lol

« Last edited by Warrior13 on Mar 2nd 2018 »

Jay Gruden is absolutely delusional, and I feel bad that Washington have such an inept coach. Firstly the team may be healthy now, but they are GUARANTEED to have injuries next season. With a mediocre at best running game & an inconsistent WR crop, Washington just won't be able to string together wins. And even if they play at a high level, it will be extremely difficult for them to win given they have one of the hardest schedules for the 3rd year running.

If Washington want a QB they won't have to move up very far. All they need to do is give the team they want to swap with either their 2018 or 2019 1st rounder, and add in a corresponding 2nd rounder. Whoever Washington would trade with would likely have recruited a veteran QB and wouldn't need their high pick, therefore the idea of picking up Washington's 2019 pick (likely a top 10 pick) along with this year's 2nd rounder would be a great deal. Look at what happened with Cleveland giving Houston their #10 pick. Houston got their franchise QB who has revolutionised their offense, and Cleveland got this year's #4 pick to give them a stranglehold on the early draft picks. If Washington finish 4-12 as I predict it will probably be a #4 pick next year. Any team would love that.

I've got to say, the compensatory draft pick is a joke. Australia's AFL has it and I didn't realise the NFL had it too. In the AFL it' pretty much a random selection in terms of what pick you get. One time a half-decent defender left and his old club got the #3 draft pick, yet a superstar player left another club and his old club got an early 3rd round pick. What sort of pick would Washington even get? The #1 pick? An early 7th rounder? Lol.

And Dennis, the Miami Dolphins organisation hasn't though Tannehill was their man for years. No-one has. There just wasn't really anyone else to pick up, and it was worth giving him a shot. It would be unfair to cut a guy after his last 8 games resulted in a 7-1 record and a 13-5 TD:INT ratio (3/5 INTs game on one game). Excluding the Baltimore game (Miami ALWAYS play poor against them) he was 12-2. He showed clutch ability in games against LA Rams & LA Chargers too. You just can't cut a guy when he shows promise. Yes an ACL tear is nasty, but Tom Brady tore his ACL a decade ago when he was 30.

« Last edited by Matt77 on Mar 2nd 2018 »

Lol less than 24 hours after Landry whinged about being offered 16 million next season (roughly what the average person will earn in 200 years of working) he's agreed to sign the franchise deal.

...Only because he hopes it will get him traded

...But at least Miami will gt something for him.

Think about it. If Landry wants out, he just leaves. That's it. Then his new club can give him the contract he wants. Perhaps if Miami get to do a trade they'll be more likely to let him leave because they get something back, but Landry is uncontracted correct? It's all up to him. It's not like he'll be unemployed by the start of the next season lol.