NFL - Discussion Thread

I think anyone would dream of getting Barkley late. I don't hear of Washington making too many moves, and there aren't any rumors floating around with them. If they are smart (extremely unlikely) they'll hopefully have a plan to maybe trade up to get a QB, or even like you say Barkley. It was such a strange move to sign Alex Smith if there is no end game. He's a very good bridge QB, but who is the QB on the other side? Colt McCoy? How many games has be started, let alone played at NFL level?

With the QB situation I just see pros and cons with them all that are fairly equal to each other (excluding Jackson). Darnold is the best QB in the draft but threw a lot of INTs in college, Allen has the best arm but has accuracy issues, Rosen has the best accuracy but has attitude problems, & Mayfield could be a hall of famer or a bust. Yes Cleveland may want for example Darnold, but would probably be happy with any of the other three, especially since there's been talk that they like Allen & Mayfield too. No matter what happens, if they want a franchise QB, there will be one waiting at #4. But I must admit the more time goes on and the more you mention your opinion, the more I'm coming around to it. I still think Barkley's the best bet, but it wouldn't be a disaster by any stretch to get a QB.

If Cleveland get a QB I'm beginning to think Josh Rosen is the best QB in the draft. Yes he's quite cocky with how he always mentions that he's the most accurate passer, but he's probably right. Out of all the QBs he's the one I can't see being a bust at all.

And to answer your question about Miami that I missed, I have absolutely no idea what is happening with that team. For all we know they'll bring in Colin Kaepernick to be 2018's Jay Cutler.

« Last edited by Matt77 on Mar 16th 2018 »

Again, Rosen is the most ready at this point in his career. That being said, however, his ceiling isn't as high as, let's say, Darnold or Allen. We all know what you're getting in Mayfield: limited arm, but extremely accurate.

I'm sort of hoping the Browns don't pick Barkley, just because I wanna see want the Giants Offense looks like with Manning, Barkley, Beckham, Marshall, Shepard and Ingram. Don't think anyone will be able to stop that. lol

On another note... I think the Falcons should definitely pick up WR Tyrell Pryor and TE Ebron in Free Agency. Could get those boys for cheap, and, like if the Giants could add Barkley, it would make their offense quite a scary sight. Could you imagine it? Ryan + Freeman/Coleman + Jones/Sanu/Pryor + Ebron. No way defenses would wanna go up against that. lol

As for the Patriots... They got a whole lot better today by signing DE Clayborn and RB Hill. Both have shown flashes of greatness, and I'm sure Belichek will get the most out of them. I'm still a firm believer that the Patriots are interested in Suh; however, I'm hearing Suh just wants to make as much money a humanly possible for the remainder of his career.

Ingram??? That's not Ingram from New Orleans is it? Anyways, regardless NY Giants need to find a medium between this season and last season and find consistency or they have no chance. Eli was a good player, but isn't anymore.

Pryor was beyond average at Washington in his short stint before getting injured. I guess there's no harm in picking him up cheap, but I'd look for a better WR.

I think you're overrating Atlanta again, Tortured Soul. Matt Ryan has digressed, and no matter how many weapons you have if your QB isn't playing at a high enough level it doesn't matter. If Ryan gets back to his 2016 level then they are getting a 1st round bye, but otherwise they'll still have to fight for a spot in the playoffs. When you let a 17-point lead go, at home, to Jay Cutler & Miami, there is an issue that seriously needs addressing.

I'm not sure what NE are doing. They've dumped some solid players and while they'll get replacements it's hard to know how they'll all work when on the field. Two years ago they dumped their best RB in Blount. Now they dump their best RB in Lewis. I have to say though, I'm loving what NE are doing.

EDIT - Indy just traded away their #3 pick...to NY Jets of all teams. Looks like Buffalo will either get NY Giants' #2 pick, or Denver's #5. Or perhaps they still take Indy's pick, but #6 instead. Poor Teddy Bridgewater...

« Last edited by Matt77 on Mar 17th 2018 »

Things are getting interesting, the key pick is the N.Y. Giants #2 pick and what they do with it. Do they take a quarterback or do they trade back with Buffalo and pick up extra picks and target Rudolph Mason at #12 who they have expressed a lot of interest in. At the moment I think the draft will go like this:

#1Cleveland = Darnold
#2 Buffalo from N.Y. Giants = Allen
#3 N.Y. Jets from Indianapolis = Mayfield
#4 Cleveland = Barkley
#5 Denver = Rosen
#6 Indianapolis = Chubb

The Redskins need an elite running back to compete with Philadelphia and Dallas, what they have now in my opinion is a bunch of guys that are mediocre, I?m praying they do some kind of trade for Cleveland?s #4 pick and take Barkley. It?s not an impossibility because the Browns have just traded for Hyde and they need cap space for other positions.

Now that the N.Y. Jets are in a position to pick up a top college quarterback the pressure is now on Miami to keep up with their divisional rival. I?m wondering if they will offer the Browns a trade they can?t refuse for the #4 pick or do they try and pick up Rudolph Mason if he is still available?

« Last edited by Sanzano on Mar 17th 2018 »

Before I begin, can we all stop with the Lamar Jackson and Mason Rudolph talk? Jackson will be lucky to sneak into the First Round; Rudolph will go in Rounds 3-5. There are four QBs and only four QBs that are worth mentioning. Thats it.

As Matt alluded to, the Bills will have to trade with the Giants for #2 to get their man. That, or do the wise thing and build around McCarron and see if he is good enough to lead them. As I said about a week ago, #2 was the real hot spot in terms of the draft. I warned if the Bills had traded up to #3, someone like the Jets could jump them at #2 and steal the QB they wanted all along. Instead, now it is the Bills who could possibly do it to the Jets.

Colts won this trade by a mile. The total value of the picks they obtained total 2810, which is 610 points more than the #3 pick. They will not have the chance at Barkley, but now they can build more around Luck while still getting DE Chubb or OL Nelson. They sooooooo won this trade.

« Last edited by Warrior13 on Mar 17th 2018 »

Warrior13, I have to disagree with your assertion of Mason Rudolph, there?s considerably more interest in him than Lamar Jackson who I think will slip to the second round even if he is the Hiesman winner, where it?ll probably be the Steelers who take him. The interest for Mason Rudolph is coming primarily from the N.Y. Giants, Chargers, Steelers, and Dolphins who some people think will take him in the second round if he?s still there when they pick. The Redskins were also interested in him before the Alex Smith trade. I must admit I?ve never seen him play but with that amount of interest he can?t be that bad. He sounds like he?ll be picked up and groomed by one of the aforementioned teams.

No one is picking Mason Rudolph before the 3rd Round. His best, BEST shot is somehow sneaking into the LATE 2nd Round. Dude is horrible compared to the others.

« Last edited by Warrior13 on Mar 17th 2018 »

Tortured Soul, calm down. Dak Prescott was a 3rd round pick (or 4th). Tom Brady way like a 7th round pick. Cousins was a 4th rounder. All that matters is picking A quarterback. Blaine Gabbert vs Kirk Cousins for example. The higher pick and more promising player was a bust, and Cousins became a very competent NFL starter when he was projected to be a backup his entire career.

Warrior, someone will give Rudolph a chance, probably in the 2nd round. If he falls to the 4th round I'll be shocked. New Orleans, Baltimore, LA Chargers, Pittsburgh, & Jacksonville are just some of the teams that would be interested in taking him as a test project. Yes he will probably fail, but who knows what could happen if he plays behind someone like Drew Brees and learns the ropes. *cough Aaron Rodgers *cough*.

I do agree with your assessment of Indy. They always looked likely to trade back and get a great deal. If they can actually build a competent o-line that stops Luck getting injured then Indy will have a pretty good offense. The defense needs work though.

Dennis your first 6 picks look pretty solid, apart from Rosen to Denver. As much as I agree that would be best for Denver, John Elway has stated that "we got our man" in terms of getting Keenum. Of course, they may be doing a 2017 Chicago here, but from what I hear they won't be taking a QB.

I'm really curious as to what both our inept organisations do in this draft. If Washington don't draft a QB they are hands down STUPID and will suffer the consequences once Smith retires (soon). And after reading up on Tannehill's strength being his athleticism, sadly it looks like his career is over. The Miami o-line is so inconsistent, and when they're having a bad day Tannehill will face presssure that he can't escape from. Miami need to try get Denver's #5 pick or else they could be in big trouble, especially since there'll be Brady, McCarron/Allen, & Bridgewater/Rosen/Mayfield in our division.

Matt77, if anyone knows anything about quarterbacks it?s John Elway having played in six Super Bowls and he knows Case Keenum isn?t the guy to lead Denver back to there. I just get a feeling Keenum has just been brought in to help groom Rosen who I think the Broncos will nab with the #5 pick. The Broncos management have to tell Keenum they believe in him because he?ll be the guy under centre for them for the next year or so. I wouldn?t be surprised if Elway saw a flaw in Cousins game he didn?t like and didn?t think he was worth getting into a bidding war with several other teams for because I did scratch my head when Denver pulled out and signed Keenum

I make you right on your assessment of the quarterbacks in the draft, being drafted #1 or #31 it doesn?t ensure they will be a success. Look at Ryan Leaf and like you mention Tom Brady. I believe if the quarterback coming out of college has the raw talent and the correct mental make-up and goes to the right team who teach him well they have a shot of being an NFL superstar. The best example I can think of this is Steve Young who after having a torrid time in Tampa gets traded to San Francisco where he becomes Joe Montana?s understudy and is coached by Bill Walsh and ends up in Canton?s Hall of Fame.

Miami I think will draft a quarterback, I don?t see many options though I?m afraid. Whoever they take it?s going to be a gamble. Realistically I don,t think they can get one of the top four quarterbacks coming out of college without selling the farm and they have too many other areas that need addressing to go all in on a quarterback by giving up draft picks.

As for Washington, they?re committed to Alex Smith after guaranteeing him a truck load of money. Colt McCoy will continue being the back-up and if Mason Randolph is still around in the second round I wouldn?t be surprised if they take him otherwise it will be the best running back available.


« Last edited by Sanzano on Mar 18th 2018 »

If Miami can't trade up they shouldn't take a QB in the 1st round, as it would be Lamar Jackson. They're better off taking someone like Vita Vea with pick 11. As I'll explain below, Denver may not even be able to choose a QB, and they're 6 spots ahead of Miami!

I read an article heavily linking Mason Rudolph to Pittsburgh. He played on Heinz Field too (winning 59-21 while throwing 5 TDs). It's so logical that a team with an older QB will take a chance on him. I can't see how Warrior can't see that.

With Denver, Rosen will likely be gone by the time they get to pick. Cleveland will pick a QB, NY Giants may pick one, and NY Jets will pick one. Cleveland or NY Giants could also trade away their #4 and #2 picks respectively, giving another team the chance to take a QB from Denver. NY Giants will want Darnold, NY Jets will want Rosen or Allen, and Cleveland will take whoever's left out of them I'd think. There's also the scenario that Darnold, Allen, Rosen, & Mayfield all get taken with the first 4 picks. I think maybe Keenum was a backup option incase they can't nab a QB in this draft, which I think will happen. I haven't heard Mayfield's name being linked to Denver at all.

« Last edited by Matt77 on Mar 18th 2018 »

Lamar Jackson is going to be a bust, I hope he doesn?t go to Miami. Jackson is the type of player that does great in college being athletically gifted against inferior opposition but in the pros being a ?Jack of all trades, master of none? means he won?t fit in anywhere and nobody is going to build the team around him. I read somewhere that an NFL team asked Jackson to try out as a wide receiver, in fact I think it was Pittsburgh, probably thinking he could be another Kordell Stewart. Apparently Jackson was ?offended? as he only wants to play quarterback. Don?t be surprised if Miami take Mason Randolph in the second round if he?s still there. If not I would like to see them aggressively go after Drew Lock in the 2019 draft which to me makes more sense as they will probably have a top eight pick and won?t have to give up too much to get him and Charlie Casserley the respected hall of fame scout says he?s as good as if not better than any of the 2018 quarterback class.

From what I can gather Miami would probably be better of drafting a defensive player with their first pick this year where they are now more or less guaranteed getting an elite player now that the quarterbacks and Barkley are likely to go in the first #5 picks. I?d like to see Miami draft Tremaine Edmunds, Minkah Fitzpatrick or Roquan Smith. All three could immediately start and boost the defense.

« Last edited by Sanzano on Mar 18th 2018 »

It's not that I CAN'T see Mason Rudolph being drafted, but more so I KNOW he won't be drafted high. I get that you and Dennis have to rely more on what is written and the stats for players, but you have never seen some of these players in action. Even if Mason Rudolph has the measurables you would like in a QB, he isn't a good QB. He has SERIOUS accuracy issues; he, Tanner Lee, and Josh Allen are the most inaccurate QBs in this draft.

On top of this, he has basically hit his ceiling in most eyes. I agree with Dennis in how Jackson is most likely gonna be a bust, but I, along with most current NFL Executives, would rather try to harness his raw potential than that of Rudolph. Shoot, I would take both Jackson and Allen, two prospect I really don't like at all, before I would even consider taking Rudolph.

You can mention how a few teams like Rudolph, but 25+ teams see the same thing I have been trying to inform you about. These teams have Rudolph as a 5th-7th Rounder, some of them don't even have him on their draft boards because they won't even consider drafting him. If the Steelers or Giants - two teams that have been notoriously horrible at drafting predecessors to their start QBs - are crazy enough to waste a high pick on realistically a third string QB, then they can be my guest. It's a reason why the best teams stay the best teams, how the rich continue to get richer by not making stupid decisions. If anyone drafts Rudolph before the 3rd Round, much like you said Matt about him reaching the 4th Round, I would be absolutely dumbstruck.

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As for my mock, it looks surprisingly similar to Dennis'. Much like him, I see the Bills trading with the Giants at #2. I know the Giants love Barkley, but the possibility of 4,5 or even six of the Bills picks in return for #2 is too much to turn down. However, I don't see Mayfield going to the Jets. I know some feel like he could be like Brees, but the Manziel comparisons, I think, will scare the Jets from pulling that trigger. Also, Denver will not be drafting a QB.

1) Browns - QB Darnold
2) Bills - QB Allen
3) Jets - QB Rosen
4) Browns - RB Barkley
5) Broncos - G Nielson
6) Colts - DE Chubb

That?s interesting Warrior13, if the draft goes the way you think it will then the Dolphins could end up with Baker Mayfield unless someone moves up which I can?t see who it would be at that point. I still think the Broncos will take Rosen and Mayfield will be a Jet though. Mayfield in New York with his personality woul be a superstar, the press would call him the second coming of Joe Namath. This years NFL draft is more exciting than the Super Bowl, I can?t remember the last time I was so intrigued by the draft.

I just can't see the Jets drafting Mayfield after giving up so much to switch spots with Indy, even if a number of people think Broadway Baker could happen.

I don't think the Dolphins will be going for a QB in this draft though. After all the players we lost in Free Aency, we really have no choice but to stick with Tannehill for one more year. Depressing, I know, but the best plan would be to trade down as much as humanly possible in order to stockpile draft picks. Who knows, maybe one of the four big time QBs drop to us at #11 and then we can entice some team behind us to trade up for him. Redskins at #13, Cardinals at #15, Chargers at #17, Saints at #27, Steelers at #28, and Patriots at #31 could all be interested in trading if something like that happened. Also, if we move far back enough in the 1st Round, perhaps we can trade back a second time with a team that is desperate to grab Lamar Jackson. This would allow the Phins to stockpile picks, as well as fill a number of holes because of this very thing.

We need to find a way to trade with Seattle to get their 2019 1st round pick. If any team a fair way above us is going to perhaps fall next season, it would have to be Seattle. Everyone above us except Washington (they don't count cause I doubt they'll give us a 1st round pick to move up 2 spots lol) have a decent chance to do well. Seattle have the greatest chance to fall. Having something like picks 3 & 8 next draft would serve us very well. Seattle are still a good team, but they will go against LA Rams, San Francisco, & Arizona for a total of 6/16 games. And they still have 0 running game.

Another scenario would be to trade up to trade down. When NY Jets traded up I initially though 'ok they obviously want a QB', but perhaps it's just so that a team like Miami see a miracle chance they didn't see coming to get a QB, and hense give up the house for that pick. Miami could trade with someone like Denver, and then sell off that #5 pick to someone else to get a lot back in return.

A final, very unlikely scenario, would be Miami trading with NY Giants to get the #2 pick (assuming Barkley is still available), and then luring in Seattle to grab a premier rusher that will turn Seattle into a SB contender once again. If Russel Wilson had a running game to lean on he'd probably be MVP. Seattle will probably be looking at a rebuild here, but they have a QB in his prime who has been to 2 Superbowls, and they should consider reopening their window. If this strange scenario happened, Miami could ask for Seattle's 2018 2nd and 4th round picks, along with their 2019 1st rounder. Very, very unlikely, but who knows.

And lastly, who calls their child Baker?

« Last edited by Matt77 on Mar 19th 2018 »

Matt, I think personally Miami will use their draft picks to plug in the holes from the players that left through free agency but if one of the top four quarterbacks drops and is still available at pick 13 they won't hesitate to take him, regardless of which quarterback it is, that's potentially their franchise player and quarterback for the next ten years. I know this is unlikely but who would have thought Jonathan Allen who was everyones pick to go second in the draft would fall to the Redskins so it does happen, Randy Moss and Dan Marino are another two it happened to.

At the end of the day, everyone is going to be wrong trying to predict the outcome of the draft, there's just too many combinations. As soon as a team unexpectedly trades up on the day anything can happen and having 10 minutes to make your decision has been known to fluster teams into making bad selections. Minnesota a few years back laughably took too long and missed their chance to select a player and then did the same thing the following year...disaster.

I think Miami will, and should use picks to pick up o-line and defensive players too, but what I'm suggesting is trading up to trade down further. For example they have up their picks 11 & 43 to Denver or Cleveland, and then traded away their new #5 pick to receive for example, picks 15, & some more of Arizona's picks (I tried finding what picks they have but there is literally no place to find it on the NFL site).

One team I'm interested in, despite them doing nothing, is Cincinnati. When they had the #12 pick they were an outside candidate for trading up. They're just going nowhere. Is Andy Dalton going to get them to a playoff win ever? There were times last season when they looked as if they could contend with any team (they eliminated both Detroit & Baltimore singlehandedly), but they'd also go and get destroyed by Chicago. Their running game is one of the worst in the league, and if Joe Mixon doesn't have a breakout season it will remain at that awful level. AJ Green is elite when he wants to be, but there were very few great games last season. Cincinnati are just floating. I feel like they should make a move at draft day, but there's very little they can do.

« Last edited by Matt77 on Mar 19th 2018 »

Sorry, Matt, but I've never heard about trading up in order to ultimately trade down. And because of this and the risk it would entail, I doubt it will ever happen. If Miami is lucky to have a QB fall to them, perhaps they could trade back with the Cardinals at #15. From there, maybe they could trade back into the twenties if one of the better prospects begin to fall. You just never know, but hopefully we can trade back.

That's odd that it hasn't happened before. The way I see it there is very little risk. You simply go with your initial plan (to trade back down again to stockpile picks), and incase people don't want to take your new high pick, you have a backup plan (take a quality player). If for example someone like Arizona or Baltimore wanted to trade with Denver, but Denver said no due to their 1st rounders being too high, imagine if someone like Miami did a trade for the #5, simply to bait Arizona & Baltimore. It would be quite complicated to do in a short period (which is why I've said it's very unlikely) but for teams like ARI & BAL, they'd jump at the second chance they were given, and if Miami played hard ball, they'd probably give in. Then, if those teams say no to the trade, Miami take Baker Mayfield.

I'm hoping rather than just trading back, that we can get picks for 2019. We'll likely be doing nothing this season, so it'll all be about how we rebuild in 2019. I think (assuming Tannehill can't get back to his 2016 form) in 2019 we should definitely draft a QB, and if we have a stockpile of picks in that draft we can easily trade up. Sadly I don't think we'll have to trade up that far...

Looks like the Dolphins are interested in Baker Mayfield, he?s got a meeting with them today, the thing is though Buffalo and especially Denver are showing an interest in him too. Looks like if Miami have any aspirations of getting him they are going to have to do some kind of trade to move up as I can?t see Mayfield now falling to #13.

Why have the Redskins signed the ex-Dallas Cowboys cornerback Scandrick? Isn?t that the guy they call toast because he?s always getting burned. Not happy with that signing at all. The Redskins need to go with Fabien Moreau, and draft a corner with their 3rd round pick in the draft.