NFL - Discussion Thread

If Chicago finishes 8-8 or worse - as I expect - then Oakland could easily be looking at close to two top ten selections in the upcoming draft. That's just incredible, especially when you consider how great a draft this is going to be for defensive players. Oakland might even be in play for the #1 Overall Selection, and if they are horrible enough to earn this, then they could do so much in terms of that Chicago Pick. If they pick #1, they could easily trade both Chicago Picks (as well as a few other picks/players) to move up to #2 in addition to that. Could you imagine how quickly Gruden could turn the Raiders (soon to be Las Vegas Raiders) around simply by getting the top two defensive players in this upcoming draft? Their D-Line could be set for the next 5-10 years.

I totally agree with what you're saying. Clearly Gruden wants to build his team (a number of players have been traded out in recent times), and if they get the good picks they can improve their disgusting defense. The only problem I see is that getting D talent doesn't help Carr, who has been average this season (7TDs, 8INTs). Carr needs weapons, and Lynch will surely finish up this season, so they also need a RB. Oakland firing Del Rio and hiring Gruden has been a disaster tbh, and even if they can build a team to contend in 2-3 years, there will still be this season and the next where Oakland are bottom of the AFC West.

I just saw that Albert Wilson of Miami was named AFC offensive player of the week. He had 150 yards in the 4th quarter alone, and burned the Chicago D for TDs of 43 and 75 yards (both from massive yards after the catch) in Q4. To think that this guy joined Miami for free in the offseason is just crazy! He's had a great season for Miami and is one of the form WRs in the game right now.

Why is Carr so highly rated, I just see an average quarterback? I think he?s one of the highest paid quarterbacks in the league and to be honest he hasn?t done anything to deserve it. He showed some promise a couple of years back but the whole team has declined since then. They were on the point of a Super Bowl appearance at one point until he got injured just before the championship games. Can Gruden work some magic like he did with Tampa Bay? If I remember correctly he built that team around two first round defensive picks, Warren Sapp and Derrick Brooks. Is he going to try to do the same again, there?s rumors ciculating around the NFL that the Raiders are tanking it to get high draft choices next year.

I wonder if the Raiders are experiencing a slump because of the move to Las Vegas? It happened in 1982 when the Raiders were on the verge of moving from Oakland to Los Angeles, they were trerrible that year and it was only two years before that they won the Super Bowl. Then in their first year in Los Angeles they win the Super Bowl again.

Matt, don?t count me out of this competition just yet, from now on if I don?t know nothing about a particular matchup I?m going to do some research instead of going on a hunch like I did with the Denver vs. Arizona game. Hunches are costing me too many games.

« Last edited by Sanzano on Oct 21st 2018 »

Sorry Dennis, you'll be finishing 2nd behind me. But you'll be ahead of Warrior at 3rd

I have no idea with Carr. You're right, he is overrated and just average, so I don't understand how he gets paid so much. His wage is basically the reason they had to trade Mack.

And ugh, don't get me started about the Las Vegas Raiders. What a disgrace. They deserve to be dissolved as an organisation for moving their team.

Philadelphia is horrible. Up 17-0 in the 4th Quarter. Lost 21-17. THAT SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN.

Oakland to Los Angeles, back to Oakland and now Las Vegas. That Raiders fan base is going to be tourists visiting Las Vegas. The Raiders will lose their loyal Oakland fans after this, it?s the second time they?ve deserted the city.

More strange happenings in the NFL this week. Philadelphia give up a late lead to the Panthers who come back to win. That?s about the third time the Eagles have let me down this season. The Bears come within 1 yard of beating the Patriots who gave up 30 points.

The Redskins are holding off the Cowboys in the third quarter 7-10. How things can change in a year, last year the defense was 28th in the league and this year they are 2nd. Elliot has 12 attempts for 19 yards and a 1.6 average. The Redskins could actually win this game, Dak Prescott is having a miserable day and Alex Smith is not doing much better. Adrian Peterson is having a good day and may even get 100 yards for the day if he keeps it up. At the moment he?s 20 for 94 and a 4.6 average.

Tampa were lucky with a last second field goal, the Browns are a team going places in a couple of years time.

HAIL TO THE REDSKINS!

3 seconds left in the game, Dallas get a false start penalty and are pushed back 5 yards. They go for the game tying field goal and hit the right crossbar.

« Last edited by Sanzano on Oct 21st 2018 »

You guys gave it a good shot, but Washington helped me win for the week.

Yeah, but if Philly hadn't pulled off a major choke, I would've been screwed.

My Carolina & New Orleans upset picks payed off, but Dallas (yay) and Cleveland let me down. Warrior your Detroit & New Orleans upsets payed off, and the same with you Dennis, although Dallas lost out. Overall Warrior you've jumped out to an even higher lead.

LA Chargers got very lucky, as Tennessee were on fire late and missed the 2-point conversion to win the game. NE got an NE win. Indy finally showed what they can do in a demolition job over Buffalo. As predicted by me in preseason, Bortles (6/12, 0TDs, 0INTs, 2 lost fumbles) got benched for Kessler, who went 21/30 for 156yrds, 1TD and 1INT (bounced out of the WRs hands). Boy do they need Fournette back. Miami got destroyed in the running game, but stayed competitive despite WRs Wilson & Stills getting injured. Osweiler had another good game too. Minnesota got the job done, and more and more INTs are popping up for Darnold (10 in 7 games, ranked last). Philly did such a funny choke, as Carolina came back from 0-17 down at 3QT to win 21-17. CAR's 8 offensive plays: Punt, Punt, Punt, Punt, Punt, TD, TD, TD. The Buccs kicker choked, then Cleveland choked from picking off Winston at TB 45, then the Buccs kicked a 59-yard FG. Tucker missed his first ever PAT, as New Orleans hung on to give Drew Brees a win against all teams. Washington FINALLY broke the cycle, as Peterson got 99 yards and Elliot 33. LA Rams found form when I thought they were in a slump, to improve to 7-0. KC killed Cincy, and are making me rethink whether to doubt KC.

The Pittsburgh Dogs are 1st in the AFC North...

What a huge result for Washington. That moves them to 4-2, while Philly choked SO HARD, Dallas missed the game-tying FG, and NY Giants are awful.
Washington: 4-2
Dallas: 3-4
Philly: 3-4
NY Giants: 1-5

« Last edited by Matt77 on Oct 21st 2018 »

The Falcons sneaked past the Giants last night. In any other season Matt Ryan would be a candidate for the MVP of the league but because Atlanta are doing so badly he is being overlooked. The numbers Ryan is putting up are impressive. I personally think the Falcons will make the playoffs, the only way you can beat them is to score more than 30 points and not every team can do that.

I can't believe the Cowboys gave up their 2019 first round draft pick to the Raiders for Amari Cooper. I don't think the guy is maybe worth a 3rd round pick, no way a first. Jon Gruden now has 5 first round draft picks in the next two years and he's told the other team every player is available for a possible trade except Carr. I have never seen a team clearout as drastic as this since Jimmy Johnson did it when he took over Tom Landry in Dallas and we all know what happened there afterwards - a dynasty was born.

Atlanta won't make playoffs. In fact, they can't even if they try. Their defense is so hit with injuries that basically every team IS scoring over 30 against them. They've conceded 18, 24, 43, 37, 41, 29, & 20 this season, while Matt Ryan has passed for 15TDs and 2INTs at 71%. It's sad that after I said in preseason Ryan needed to take responsibility and get the team over the line, he has played out of his skin but still Atlanta can't win.

Dallas are just desperate for a WR. They payed way too much, but got their man. I hear that Oakland are offering several more players up for trade right now. If Oakland, Chicago, & Dallas all finish with poor records then Oakland are going to have one of the biggest drafts we've ever seen.

Now it's clear that Gruden is building HIS team. Like I say, in theory it will work and Oakland will be a SB contender in 3 years time, but if it fails then Oakland will have 2 initial years of failure, on top of 2-5 more when a second rebuild is attempted. They're playing a very dangerous game.

I mean, why would you dismantle a team that was heading towards a first week bye before Carr got injured?

Draft picks do not guarantee success. I remember in 1999 when Mike Ditka the head coach of the New Orleans Saints traded the entire teams draft for that year for running back Ricky Williams with the fifth overal selection which the Redskins held. The trade was a crazy one but what people don't realise looking at it now is that with all those picks Washington should have started a dynasty but instead did absolutely nothing, literally all the picks were busts. The only one that wasn't was LaVar Arrington which the Redskins selected with the 2nd overal pick in the 2000 draft (couldn't go wrong with that one).

You are right Matt, Gruden is playing a dangerous game but he knows he has time on his hands as the Raiders have contracted him for 10 years paying him ridiculous money so he can't lose really. If after about year four there are no playoff beths he will start to feel the heat. If he pulls this off his stock will rise dramatically as it will be the second time he has taken a team from nothing and turned them into Super Bowl winners.

.............................10 YEARS?????

Wow wow wow. Now THAT is what playing a dangerous game really is. If things don't go to plan let's say by Year 5 and Las Vegas (they will be based there by 2023) are fed up, they will have to pay Gruden's salary for 5 years while he sits at home laughing. We also have to remember that after he won Tampa Bay that SB, they returned to mediocrity and I think they fired Gruden. Either that, or he left.

Personally I thought Jack Del Rio did a great job taking a Raiders team that consistently placed last in the AFC West to the playoffs, where they would've made the AFC Championship team had Carr not broke his leg. Then in the following year when Oakland fell to 6-10 (Carr was constantly injured to some degree) they fire Del Rio in an instant. I think there are problems through the entire organisation of Oakland/Las Vegas.

« Last edited by Matt77 on Oct 23rd 2018 »

You have a point with Jack Del Rio, it's almost as if the Raiders got rid of him because Jon Grudden decided he wanted to leave his commentating job and get back into coaching. It wasn't Del Rio's fault that Carr broke his leg and it affected the Raiders performance the following season. A bit harsh I feel as Del Rio had them on the verge of a Super Bowl.

Gruden was fired by the Tampa Bay Buccanneers after seven seasons. The Bucs started his last season 9-3 and lost their last four games missing the playoffs. Management decided to then get rid of him after that collapse.

There's a website out there that is already counting down the days before Grudden is gone, apparently he's not everyone's cup of tea. I personally like the guy, he's a colourful character which is something the NFL needs more of. I can't wait to see what positions he uses those five first rounders in the next couple of years. On paper with those picks, his second rounders and third rounders he should have the cornerstone of a championship team.

What is worrying though is that when Grudden was at Tampa Bay he was notorious for bad picks in the NFL draft...

When he was in Tampa Bay, Gruden made 61 picks in seven seasons. According to one report, only three of those became Pro Bowlers (Davin Joseph, Jeremy Zuttah and Aqib Talib), but only one of them was a Pro Bowler in Tampa.


« Last edited by Sanzano on Oct 23rd 2018 »

I see what you mean about bad picks, and it's started already. In this year's draft Oakland took a nobody with their 1st rounder, when there was elite talent to choose from.

I think one of those 5 picks will be on a QB, unless AJ McCarron is the man to take over from Carr. From what I've been reading over the last week, it's looking like a genuine possibility that Carr will be traded to Jacksonville at the end of this season. Some sources even say it's more likely than not to happen! While I don't think Carr is elite, he's a solid starting QB who has suffered due to his club trading away literally all of his WRs. I really hope they don't get rid of Carr.

I'd say Oakland should use their 5 picks on:

2019: DE, CB, WR*
2020: DE, RB*

If they follow this plan, they should have 2 quality DEs to put pressure on, a new CB to upgrade the woeful defense, and solid offensive weapons at WR and RB. Then with 2nd round picks and later, they can fill smaller holes. If they can find quality WRs or RBs in later rounds, then they should substitute those 1st round choices with o-line talent.

--------------------------------

Speaking of drafting, how do you think the 4 big name QBs have gone (Mayfield, Darnold, Allen, Rosen)? It's amazing, but I think Cleveland did a masterstroke and found clearly the best QB out of the class in Mayfield. Darnold is clearly in 2nd, but his turnover rate (10INTs in 7 games) is the worst in the NFL. Then it's a tie between Allen & Rosen because they're both performing badly in very bad teams, so I can't really judge them yet.

« Last edited by Matt77 on Oct 23rd 2018 »

That's interesting what you say about Carr being traded to Jacksonville because I've heard a rumour that the Raiders are after Justin Herbert who is by far and away the best Quarterback in the 2019 draft. Also, getting rid of Carr will release a ton of money.

As for the quarterbacks, like you I think Cleveland got the best one, the guy is a winner. Like I said last year before the draft he reminds me of a young Tom Brady with his desire to win its something that can't be taught. After his career is over I think people will say Mayfield was the best of the four. Darnold at the moment is a typical rookie making mistakes, too early to say if he is a bust yet as John Elway had the same problem when he entered the league in 1983 and he's now in the Hall of Fame with two Super Bowl rings in six appearances. I think Darnold will go on to have a solid career but never actually win anything of note due to playing for the NY Jets who have a long history of being mediocre and I don't think it's going to change. The other two, Rosen and Allen I think will just be journeymen who will each end up playing for different teams before their careers are done. Basically Jeff George/Vinny Testerverde type of players.

You say Cleveland pulled a masterstroke getting Baker Mayfield but getting Denzel Ward at number 4 wasn't a bad move either. Cleveland now have a decent defense and like I've said before I think are going places. I know they are still getting beat but have you noticed how competitive their games have suddenly become? If they pick up an elite running back or wide reciever in the 2019 draft they will definately be a team to watch.

That's a fair assessment of the QBs. You were right in week 3 when you complemented Mayfield's 'desire to win'. Ward is a good get, but I still think Chubb was a better option, or Barkley at 1 and Mayfield at 4. You're dead right about Cleveland going places though. They've played in 4 overtime games this season and gone 1-2-1 in them. They missed a game-winning FG against Pittsburgh, they were on the wrong end of some horrific referee decisions while up 42-34 against Oakland, and had picked off Winston at TB 45 last week. Then we also go back to week 2 @ New Orleans, where their kicked missed 2FGs and a PAT after they tied the scores. When you also take into account NY Jets' horrible meltdown against them, Cleveland should be 5-2 right now.

I just looked at the current draft picks. Oakland hold picks 4, 10, and 17. Watch this space.

« Last edited by Matt77 on Oct 23rd 2018 »

Lol, getting picks 4, 10, and 17 is one thing but converting them to players that will dominate in the NFL at their position for years to come is something else. Jon Grudden may be a great coach but he is lousy at picking players. He may be better off letting someone else in the organisation pick in the draft.

Turns out Dallas were forced into giving up their number one pick to get Amari Cooper as the Eagles had offered their number two which was probably a more fair deal. I didn't realise Amari Cooper spends most of his time injured, he's only had two decent seasons in the NFL. Mind you he did go to the pro bowl on both occasions so he does have potential to become an elite wide reciever. The question is have the Raiders had the best out of him.

I was watching Denzel Wood highlights from this season and he is without doubt going to be the best corner in the league within the next year. Even as a rookie he is shutting down Pro Bowlers like Antonio Brown. He is literally going to be a one on one shutdown corner.

Once Cleveland start winning games on a regular basis and the team develops a winning mentality like the Patriots and Steelers they will be hard to beat. The annoying thing is the Browns have the worst uniform in the league, it's just plain ugly. I particularly hate the way it has 'Browns' down the side of the trousers. I know they are called the 'Browns' after Paul Brown, who founded them but surely they can have a logo of a barking dog or something on their helmet like the Georgia Bulldogs.






« Last edited by Sanzano on Oct 24th 2018 »

Yeah... what is a Brown? What is a Packer? What is a 49er? What is a Steeler? These aren't even that bad actually. In the AFL there are 2 teams called the Blues and the Suns...

I'd like Cleveland to start doing well. Seeing LA Rams and Jacksonville turn from the laughing stock of the NFL into genuine SB contenders was great to see.

Also, doesn't that G on that logo look exactly like Green Bay's G logo?

Pittsburgh is one of the biggest manufactures of steel in the U.S. so they got their name
When I first started watching the NFL I asked the exact same questions, over the years I've read a lot of history on the NFL. The othe two sports I know a lot about is Boxing and MMA and have a ton of books and magazines I've collected over the years.

'Steelers'. The logo on the side of the Steelers hat is steel hallmark. During WWII when most of the men in the U.S. were fighting overseas the Steelers joined the Philadelphia Eagles and were called the 'Steagles'.

The founder of the Green Bay Packers worked at a meat packing company in Wisconsin and the team were nicknamed the 'packers'.

The 49rs is a reference to the gold rush in San Francisco which happened in 1849.

Cleveland's football team was named after its founder Paul Brown.