NFL - Discussion Thread

If Miami do miss the playoffs (99.9% chance), the problem is they will have a record somewhere around 7-9. That means trading up for a QB. We've seen how horrible those traded can be in the long term if a team screws is up. And if they do trade up, they won't have many picks to plug that awful pass D.

If NY Giants don't wort out their o-line, Carr will get killed. You don't bring in a QB who has previously broken his leg, to a disastrous o-line. But if they can in the draft like you say, it's a good trade move. I just worry about them in the long term. Philly have a franchise QB who will probably win an MVP one day, Washington are building a very solid young defense, and Dallas have Elliot, and won't stay down for long (money is very helpful). NY Giants need Barkley to become an elite player to have any hope.

...Cleveland just fired Hue Jackson. They kept him in after a 1-15 season, and then kept him in again after a 0-16 season. Now they fire him after a 2-5-1 season?

« Last edited by Matt77 on Oct 29th 2018 »

I doubt Derek Carr will be traded to the Giants, that would leave the Raiders in a right mess. Interesting though, it definately won't happen by today's deadline but during the offseason if the Raiders are in pole position for Justin Herbert or Drew Lock I would not be surprised if Gruden does a deal to release some money. I get the feeling Gruden wants a complete clearout and to rebuild the team with his guys in his image. The other thing that may push the deal through during the offseason is that Carr does not have the backing of the other players in the team for some reason, I have no idea what that is about but it is something Gruden will have to address. I can only guess the other players are jealous of Carr's juicy contract.

Matt, I was also confused by the sacking of Hugh Jackson, it doesn't make sense. His last two seasons were disasterous by anyones standards and Cleveland stuck by him, he then orchestrates a masterful draft in 2018 and the team starts winning and being competitive and they fire him? I think there's something more to this story, it doesn't make sense. All I can think is there is a big name coach in the wings waiting to step in. I see Lincoln Riley's name is being mentioned, he just so happens to be head coach of the University of Oklahoma who transformed Baker Mayfield into the Heisman winner.

« Last edited by Sanzano on Oct 30th 2018 »

Gruden has stated that Carr won't be traded. This means that he definitely will be traded, since he said exactly the same thing with Mack and Cooper. I can see Oakland trading Carr to Jacksonville in exchange for JAX's 1st round pick. That would give them picks 3, 9, 13, & 22 in this season's draft. Then Oakland will pick a QB with pick 3, and then picks 9, 13, and 22 can be on defensive players. I mean, Oakland have averaged 1 sack per game this season.

This is getting really, really ugly for Oakland. In the preseason some people even had Oakland down as getting a wildcard spot in playoffs, but now they are 1-6 (the win was at home, in OT), have traded away 2 pro-bowlers, and will soon have a rookie QB at the helm. And to make matters worse, when they move to Las Vegas, they will be one of the worst teams in the league. The improvement will take a few years. And what if the rebuild fails, and their QB is a dud? Wow wow wow.

John Dorsey was responsible for the great drafting, not Jackson. I read things today saying that Jackson and offensive coach Todd Haley had a very bad relationship. Imo it's good that they finally fired Jackson, but they should've done it when they lost their 16th game of 2017/18. No coach should survive a 1-31 record. But what is crazy is that Todd Haley was the offensive coordinator at Pittsburgh for years, and he was fired too after just 8 games!

Watch for Cleveland to win the NFC North in the 2019/20 season. With a full season of a new coach, new QB, and new team as a whole, they'll do good things.

Dennis, I just looked and Washington hold pick 26 in the draft right now. If they continue this impressive form, they won't be able to pick a QB which they desperately need.

« Last edited by Matt77 on Oct 30th 2018 »

Matt, Washington will start dropping games from now on in starting with Atlanta this week. Any team that can pass the ball has a good chance of beating the Redskins in a shootout. Alex Smith does not take chances which is fine when the defense can stop the opponents run and turn the ball over but as soon as Washington fall behind to a passing team they will get beat. They've still got Philadelphia twice and Dallas away. Buccaneers and Texans are also await them.

The Raiders are going to look foolish if they get five first round picks and they don't turn at least three of them into pro bowl players. I hear the quarterbacks this year are nowhere near the talent of last years crop and to be honest apart from Mayfield none of the others have impressed me so far. I'd rather have Alex Smith at this current moment in time but like you say Washington have a year, maybe two to get a replacement if the want the rookie to benefit from the seasoned pro.

What other teams are looking for a quarterback? Miami, Denver, NY Giants, Indianapolis, Jacksonville spring to mind so unless Washington do some kind of trade I can't see how they are going to get one. And when faced with that scenario you know you are going to loose quality players in other areas which in the Redskins case would be Allen and Payne.

« Last edited by Sanzano on Oct 30th 2018 »

That was interesting, the Redskins have acquired Ha Ha Clinton-Dix from the Green Bay Packers for a fourth round pick. Apparently the Packers couldn't afford to keep him. This now means the Redskins have two of the three highest rated safeties this season giving them the best safety tandem in the NFL. Ha Ha Clinton-Dix was the 24th player selected in the 1st round of the 2014 draft. Sounds like the Redskins are going for it this year giving up future assets to acquire playesr to bolster this season. All Washington need now is a top quality deep threat wide reciever and there's no telling how far into this season they could go.I may have to change my Atlanta vs Washington pick now that the weakness in the secondary has been patched up. I didn't realise the Redskins sacked Eli Manning 7 times last week.

Indianapolis?!?!?! Andrew Luck is having a great season, and his shoulder looks good again. They already have Jacoby Brisset as a backup, and he proved he can be a low-level starter. Denver signed Keenum for 2 years, so they'll have to give him another year. NY Giants have to pick a QB this draft, and Miami will also do so. Jacksonville I think will be able to lure Carr. Washington could potentially get one, but it won't be one of the better ones.

I think it's time to believe in Washington again. From the moment I started following NFL and talking with you both in this thread, you've been annoyed at Washington's non-existent running game. In fact it was the 3rd post of this thread, back in August 2016. Now they have that running game. All Washington need to do it move slowly and conservatively on offense and they'll chew up the clock, while their opposition will be forced to pass the ball and quickly due to Washington's elite rush D. This week is the perfect test for them vs Matt Ryan. I think too much responsibility will be put on Matt Ryan, and he'll have a bad day. Alex Smith doesn't desperately need deep threats, because it isn't necessary right now.

Uuuuuuugh. Tipping gets tougher and tougher. So many 50/50 matchups. OAK @ SF, ATL @ WAS, PIT @ BAL, LAC @ SEA, and LAR @ NO are just some of the tough matches to pick. According to the website I tipped 3 upsets, but imo their betting odds are wrong.

I don't feel 100% confident with any of the 13 games this week.

8 home teams and 5 road teams this week. This has the potential to give me a big boost, or make me come crashing down. I need to close the gap starting from now.

« Last edited by Matt77 on Oct 31st 2018 »

If y'all are gonna catch me, it's gonna start this week. These games are crazy! I picked eight home teams and five road teams, but I wanted to pick like eight or nine road teams my first time through.

I struggled with my picks on Sunday when I went through them, since then I've changed three of them. Too many toss ups this week. I have 5 road teams now, it was 8 on Sunday night.

Packers against New England is a tricky one, the Packers need to win and New England are relatively safe in the AFC East. It's a case of am I brave enough to pick the Packers going into Foxboro and pulling off the upset.

As for the Oakland vs San Francisco game, I have no idea. At the moment I'm leaning towards San Francisco but after just watching the highlights of the Raiders this week I'm not so sure, Carr actually looked decent throwing that ball about.

I see Fitzpatrick is starting for the Buccaneer this week and after just seeing how he performed after taking over from Winston there could be an upset against Carolina as well.

Redskins vs Falcons is an intriguing game, if the Falcons get a quick start it's all over but ift the Redskins can get to Ryan and stuff the run the Falcons are in trouble.

Too many ifs and buts this week, I have a feeling I'm going to fall further behind in the competition, I'm not feeling too confident with my tips.

Lol we all tipped 8 home teams, and we're all going crazy.

Warrior we may catch you, but it could go the other way and you could murder us and take your crown 7 weeks early. I've done a few bold choices with very little confidence And sometimes I tipped a home team in a 50/50 matchup, but then in another 50/50 matchup tipped the road team. Urgh.

Dennis last week you said nearly an identical line about Green Bay, and I literally predicted what would happen. You didn't tip them, and they lost. If I were you I'd avoid that upset pick. After all, it's NE. I actually think Oakland are better than SF right now, but it is in SF so who knows. Beathard has performed decent enough against weak Ds, and it doesn't get any weaker than Oakland. I just picked SF, with no confidence. I'm intrigued with Tampa Bay too, but Carolina are looking pretty good right now. And yes, ugh that ATL @ WAS game was horrible. I agree, if one team gets a 14-point lead, it's game over.

I will be tipping Washington, I think. They are at home which helps, but they've beaten Arizona, Green Bay, Carolina, Dallas, & NY Giants. They lost to Indy & New Orleans. The old Washington would crumble in big games, and they've only done so in 1/4. Those 3 bolded wins are seriously impressive.

« Last edited by Matt77 on Oct 31st 2018 »

I went with a few upsets this week. I won't say who, but just know there are a few. Like you two, I'm not that confident either. It will definitely be interesting. I have a feeling all of us will either win big or lose big this week; that, or we all will be around 6-7 or 7-6. lol

I predict you will be at about 10-3, and me & Dennis will be around 7-6... Things have fallen into place for you, week after week.

That said, Philly & San Francisco have done some nice choke jobs for me in recent weeks.

« Last edited by Matt77 on Nov 1st 2018 »

Ugh. CJ Beathard is out injured, and I didn't have enough time to change my tip...

But bizarrely, after trailing 0-3, SF are leading 14-3, and 3rd-string QB Nick Mullens has gone 2/2 on drives leading to TDs, and is at 9/11 for 103 yards and 2TDs, 0INTs. Disgraceful play by Oakland.

...and now we're at a 24-3 score in favour of SF. We have a new starting QB in SF. 3TDs now for Mullens, and 14/19 for 243 yards.

« Last edited by Matt77 on Nov 1st 2018 »

Mullens isn?t that good. Clearly Raiders are tanking for draft stock. But I?ll take the win. lol

Yes it's only one game, but he WILL start next week. He has to. I don't care how woeful Oakland are (they are really, really bad). Passing for 3TDs, 0INTs, at 11.9yrds/play for a 151.9 passer rating is a super achievement. Lets not forget this guy was making his debut, in primetime, in a 1-7 team.

The reality is that he will most likely become a backup QB for the rest of his career, if he can get a backup job, but who knows Lonely Master. There's only upside with this guy. If he only plays 2 more career games, then that's what everyone expected. But what is he plays 50 more matches?

We always have to remember. Tom Brady was a 7th round QB, meaning recruiters saw huge deficiencies in his ability. It didn't matter one bit when he transitioned to the NFL.

Don't ruin the fairy tale!!!!!

« Last edited by Matt77 on Nov 2nd 2018 »

The NFL should impliment some kind of rule to penalise teams that tank it to get better draft picks. No way the Raiders should have got beat that bad. I know they were playing away from home but it's just a drive down the road. That game has cost me, it should have been a fairly close 21-24 kind of game that could have gone either way not a blowout. The 49rs first string quarterback wasn't even playing. I literally changed my tip from the 49rs to Oakland when I found this out just before the game. This has annoyed me...

One things for sure I'm not picking the Raiders to win a game from now on in to the end of the season. Derek Carr threw the ball 21 times for 171 yarads and the running backs rushed for barely 100 yards. The Raiders are pathetic, I used to love that team in the 70's and 80's, not any more. The only thing now good about the Raiders is their silver and black uniform.

Carr is not going to be a Raider next season, he clearly is not an elite quarterback, he doesn't even have the support of the locker room. Grudden will get rid of him during the offseason and pick up the best quarterback in the 2019 draft. I think Carr knows this as well

« Last edited by Sanzano on Nov 2nd 2018 »

Hours before the game, Jon Gruden said:

I get a lot of phone calls from people that are dying to come play here. I'm just telling you. They're dying to play for the Raiders.

« Last edited by Matt77 on Nov 2nd 2018 »

I believe the Grudden, nobody wants to play in Oakland, it's a rough industrial city but playing in Las Vegas every other week is something else, it's the entertainment capital of the world.

Grudden is making the most of his unheard of in this age 10 year contract. He is probably going to do some wheeling and dealing with all his cap space during the offseason and raise a few eyebrows by bringing in some big name veterans to guide the rookies. The difference is that Mack and Cooper where not his guys, the players Grudden brings in will be. Don't be surprised if Levon Bell is one of them.

Whatever Grudden does I don't think he really cares, he's guaranteed a truck load of money regardless if his plan works or not. I used to like Jon Grudden but he is now starting to come across as someone you wouldn't buy a second hand car from. Tanking the season to get better draft picks is basically cheating, if other teams start doing this when they realise they won't make the playoffs that year it will tarnish the whole NFL.

I'm still annoyed about the Raiders tanking it against the 49rs...

No player with a sane mind would want to play for Oakland right now. The rebuild will take a few years too, if it's successful.

If Oakland bring in LeVeon Bell, they will never win a SB. Bell is seriously overrated, and a certain locker rook cancer. Gruden no doubt wants a good club culture as well as good players, and Bell is not that guy. When Pittsburgh were 0-1-1, Bell was off in Miami riding jet skis all day, asking to be paid more money. This is another case of Cousins not taking his contract because he wanted more money. Seriously, anyone would be ecstatic with earning a few million a year. When players demand tens of millions more, that's when it gets greedy. At least Cousins still played while his contract negotiations happened; Bell is contributing nothing.

Steelers RB James Connor has the same amount of 200+ yard games this season as Bell has had in his entire career.

I agree Oakland were 100% tanking. I mean, with about 10 minutes left Oakland were down 3-31 and deep in SF territory. Then they decided to kick a field goal to take the margin back to 25 (3 two-point converted TDs couldn't even get them the win). But they even missed the kick! In that situation you have to go for the 4th down. If it works and you eventually get the TD, it's back to 21, and you can force a stop on D. Then you can march down the field and score to take it back to 14. If an onside kick is successful, you have a chance to get it back to 7. And then you have another shot at an onside kick. Who knows, it may work, and you may go down and tie the scores.

The funny thing is a few minutes after that, SF went into Oakland's red zone and faced a 4th and 7. They went for it, and completed it. Then they chewed up more clock time and iced the game 34-3.

You were unlucky with Oakland. When I woke up and read that Beathard was out, I was devastated cause I wanted to change my tip to Oakland. But the game had already started luckily. I mean, last week they lead 28-21 at 3QT against Indy, at home, before being outscored 0-21. Even with the awful squad they have, Carr s talented enough to stretch the field and get TDs. That's 3-55 in Oakland's last 5 quarters!

Oakland should get sanctioned a 1st round draft pick for tanking. Something like their pick they got from Chicago. In the AFL in Australia, about 5 years ago a team nearly lost draft picks when a review concluded that they purposely tanked. That I think is the way to go. Either that, or create financial penalties for teams that finish with the worst overall record. While the EPL is a disgrace in the top half of the table, the bottom half is actually interesting cause teams are desperate to win each and every game.

« Last edited by Matt77 on Nov 2nd 2018 »

Matt: Mullens is going to get beat up, just like Beathard, if they keep starting him. Have you seen the Niners remaining schedule? Even the Giants next week will have a much better pass rush than the Raiders. Either way, I think both Beathard and Mullens have a high likelihood of being on new teams next season. Beathard has kept all his games close, even though the Niners Defense lost every last one of those games for him. And Mullens, well, Matt Flynn proved you can get teams interested by having one good game. lol

Dennis: I think Gruden meant that he knows players would like to play for him as a coach instead of the Raiders organization, especially after the team moves to Las Vegas next year and drafts three new starters.