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Blazin Torchic Posted: 18:32 Jun27 2007 Post ID: 1694981
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On 27-Jun-2007 Arsenal#1 said:Ok...So adoption is a good idea, yes. But what about the nine months of pain the mother went through, and have nothing in the end...Thats unfair too.
It can't be fun having your stomach expand to carry a human inside it, and then have it come out a stupidly small area. No man has, or could ever feel that pain...

Edit: tehe...I've just noticed...I probably sound anti-christian...but I'm catholic...just don't go with all the beliefs...
The 9 months the mother went through and have nothing at the end? She does have something! The joy of giving life to a newborn baby. She also gets something from aborting it, but it's negative. She gets the guilt of reproducing and then getting pregnant and then killing it. Why reproduce in the first place? For fun? Ick...
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Simple Theory Posted: 21:54 Jun27 2007 Post ID: 1695618
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On 27-Jun-2007 Blazin Torchic said:The 9 months the mother went through and have nothing at the end? She does have something! The joy of giving life to a newborn baby. She also gets something from aborting it, but it's negative. She gets the guilt of reproducing and then getting pregnant and then killing it. Why reproduce in the first place? For fun? Ick...
The joy of going through one of the most painful experiences of your life, knowing that you didn't want it, and knowing that your child is going to be taken care of someone who you have never seen in your life. I would love that joy.

You do have a point however- Don't have unprotected sex unless you know what you're getting into! I still stand by my pro-choice argument. Her life, her body, her decisions.
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Flareon Dude_ Posted: 23:48 Jun27 2007 Post ID: 1695880
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On 27-Jun-2007 Blazin Torchic said:The 9 months the mother went through and have nothing at the end? She does have something! The joy of giving life to a newborn baby. She also gets something from aborting it, but it's negative. She gets the guilt of reproducing and then getting pregnant and then killing it. Why reproduce in the first place? For fun? Ick...
actually, as far as I know, an abortion cannot happen after 2 months (but thats just wat I know), and by 9 months, its not by definition an abortion. it's just killing a fully grown baby. of course for fun. thats one of the main reasons people have sex. and I know wat ur gonna say 'i meant reproduce a human for fun', well your wrong on that. accidents happen. humans are fallable, no matter wat form of contraception. (exept for abstinance, of course).
"Do or do not, there is no try" -Yoda
I'm gone...
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Volke Posted: 06:19 Jun28 2007 Post ID: 1696232
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On 27-Jun-2007 Blazin Torchic said:The 9 months the mother went through and have nothing at the end? She does have something! The joy of giving life to a newborn baby. She also gets something from aborting it, but it's negative. She gets the guilt of reproducing and then getting pregnant and then killing it. Why reproduce in the first place? For fun? Ick...
Joy? You're either a hardcore Christian or you think giving birth popping out candy from a candy machine. I vote both.


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Arsenal#1 Posted: 07:29 Jun28 2007 Post ID: 1696302
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On 27-Jun-2007 Simple Theory said:How would abortion have a negative effect on the woman if she is the one who wanted it done in the first place. Even if she didn't want it done, she's the one who made the choice to get it done. Her problem.

I find it extremely hard to believe that 60 million babies have been aborted. Are you sure you didn't mean 6 million, or 600,000, because 60 million is absurd. Even if that is the real number, killing 60 million babies (unborn, and the vast majority of them without senses to pain) is not the same as killing 20 million people who have already had the chance to live parts of their lives.

Edit: Just to elaborate on Arsenal's post. I hear somewhere that the pain of the vagina being stretched during delivery is equal or worse than the pain of having the bottom of your lip pulled all the way to your forehead!
According to Family Guy!=P
But yeah. It makes a fair point...Ugh...I never want kids...ow...
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skyline specialist Posted: 10:00 Jun28 2007 Post ID: 1696583
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On 28-Jun-2007 Arsenal#1 said:According to Family Guy!=P
But yeah. It makes a fair point...Ugh...I never want kids...ow...
No offence, but are you sure you really dont wants kids?

I know it hurts, but you will be a mother someday.


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Arsenal#1 Posted: 10:13 Jun28 2007 Post ID: 1696617
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Oh god...My opinion will probably change when I'm older. But for now...Eh no! I'm only 14...Ill probably want kids in like 20 years.

60million babies? Nah...Thats too high...I doubt it...
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Shadow_Lord Posted: 13:26 Jun28 2007 Post ID: 1697243
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On 27-Jun-2007 Blazin Torchic said:The 9 months the mother went through and have nothing at the end? She does have something! The joy of giving life to a newborn baby. She also gets something from aborting it, but it's negative. She gets the guilt of reproducing and then getting pregnant and then killing it. Why reproduce in the first place? For fun? Ick...
She also has the significant financial, emotional and physical strain of raising a child for at least 16 years. That can be hard, espeically if she's a single mother. As for why she did it in the first place - have you never heard of taking joy in sex? A lot people don't have sex because they want to have a baby - usually, they have sex for either the sex itself or to develop a closer bond witht the person they're having sex with. Or both. The baby usually happens... well, almost as an afterthought, to be honest.

But sometimes it's an accident. Maybe the contraception didn't work, maybe contraception was forgotten, or maybe it just seemed like nothing at the time. The fact is, girls and women often get pregnant when they don't mean to, or only realise how serious it is after they've actually gotten pregnant. This is the point where we as a society can either say, "It's your fault! You've made your bed, now lie in it!" or, "Ok, you messed up. Now here's how we're going to help you." The former is just spiteful, really, as I said before. True, there are some situations where that has to be the case, but abortion isn't one of them. The latter statement is by far the more sensitive course of action.
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MasterHunter Posted: 14:40 Jun28 2007 Post ID: 1697521
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If someone wants an abortion then they should have one, if they don't then they should keep the baby. It's the parents decision, there's no need for anyothers to get involved (bar the doctor who carries it out).
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Simple Theory Posted: 15:27 Jun28 2007 Post ID: 1697725
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On 27-Jun-2007 Flareon Dude_ said:actually, as far as I know, an abortion cannot happen after 2 months (but thats just wat I know), and by 9 months, its not by definition an abortion. it's just killing a fully grown baby. of course for fun. thats one of the main reasons people have sex. and I know wat ur gonna say 'i meant reproduce a human for fun', well your wrong on that. accidents happen. humans are fallable, no matter wat form of contraception. (exept for abstinance, of course).
Good post but bad technical stuff. Please capitalize and spell properly in this forum. No abbreviation ("ur," "gonna," "wat," "exept," etc...). Just a heads up, you haven't done anything major so don't sweat it.
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Shadow_Lord Posted: 15:27 Jun28 2007 Post ID: 1697728
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Also, another angle that hasn't been discussed much is: what if the baby poses a serious health risk to the mother? Would it be wrong for her to get an abortion then?
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imaloony8.0 Posted: 18:05 Jun28 2007 Post ID: 1698390
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Alright, everyone here says the condom is not 100% reliable, which is true, but if you use it properly, it works 98% of the time.

Shadow lord, that is actually very debatable in itself, some say: "The baby's most important, try to save both" while others say: "The mother's more important, abortion! abortion!" I have no opinion on the matter, since I honestly could never decide.

Don't want a baby? Don't have sex. Or at least use condoms, the pill, or whatever. Want a baby? Make sure the other person dosen't have STD's, and go to town! Got rapped? Have an abortion, or put the baby up for adoption. I prefer the ladder since a human life isn't ended. That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

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Blazin Torchic Posted: 18:29 Jun28 2007 Post ID: 1698502
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On 28-Jun-2007 Volke said:Joy? You're either a hardcore Christian or you think giving birth popping out candy from a candy machine. I vote both.
I'm neither -.- You don't think other people having a baby is exciting? So you're saying the birth of you isn't exciting? I'm not saying all births are exciting, but mostly around my family it is. I mean I won't jump around all day saying "Blah Blah is having a baby!!" I'll just be happy if she does have a baby.
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Simple Theory Posted: 21:50 Jun28 2007 Post ID: 1699051
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On 28-Jun-2007 h3llrulz said:lol not all mums are happy about giving birth you know....
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Fwank Posted: 21:59 Jun28 2007 Post ID: 1699103
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To the poor soul who's post was deleted: try to elaborate on why you think mothers in general won't necessarily be happy about giving birth (just assume we don't know anything)

The people I've contacted with who've had to make similar decisions all agree that abortion is hard, and that is usually because of their belief that aborting a child is killing them; whether or not its a bunch of stem cells, fact remains that if left untouched, it will eventually develop into a human being, and that thought is a huge barrier for those considering abortion (like rape victims and mothers who cannot support the baby or know that the baby has a genetic disorder that may eventually lead to its demise a lot sooner than usual, etc).

Likewise; giving birth is giving life to another human being, it's comparable to saving a life. I can't say I can relate to giving life to a newborn, but when I save someone's life, I feel freaking awesome; I could only imagine how I'd feel if I were to actually have a baby (not really, but I think it could be bloody awesome)
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Volke Posted: 06:35 Jun29 2007 Post ID: 1699743
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imaloony8.0 - If someone gets raped then abortion is the better choice. The mother has already gone through enough physical and mental pain as it is, and giving the baby up would be much harder if she gave birth to it. If she also has a partner, then he wouldn't want to keep the baby since it's not his.

Blazin Torchic - My parents were very excited about having me but my mother most certainly wasn't looking foreward to giving birth to me. If you're going to give the baby up anyway is it really worth it?


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super craig Posted: 11:20 Jun29 2007 Post ID: 1700289
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On 28-Jun-2007 Blazin Torchic said:I'm neither -.- You don't think other people having a baby is exciting? So you're saying the birth of you isn't exciting? I'm not saying all births are exciting, but mostly around my family it is. I mean I won't jump around all day saying "Blah Blah is having a baby!!" I'll just be happy if she does have a baby.
So your saying the if a woman has a baby that she really doesn't want and cause all sorts of stress, pain and may very probably ruin her life, then that is a happy occasion? I agree that if the mother really wants the baby and it will be born into a loving family then I will feel happy for her.
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Shadow_Lord Posted: 16:48 Jun29 2007 Post ID: 1701325
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On 28-Jun-2007 imaloony8.0 said:Alright, everyone here says the condom is not 100% reliable, which is true, but if you use it properly, it works 98% of the time.

Shadow lord, that is actually very debatable in itself, some say: "The baby's most important, try to save both" while others say: "The mother's more important, abortion! abortion!" I have no opinion on the matter, since I honestly could never decide.

Don't want a baby? Don't have sex. Or at least use condoms, the pill, or whatever. Want a baby? Make sure the other person dosen't have STD's, and go to town! Got rapped? Have an abortion, or put the baby up for adoption. I prefer the ladder since a human life isn't ended. That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.
To the second paragraph: fair point. I suppose it laregly depends on circumstance. That and when a baby actually counts as 'alive'.

To the third paragraph: evidentally you didn't read my post about people doing stupid things they regret. To expect people to act sensibly and rationally 24/7 is just unfair and ridiculous.
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BlackNinja Posted: 17:07 Jun29 2007 Post ID: 1701387
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On 28-Jun-2007 imaloony8.0 said:Alright, everyone here says the condom is not 100% reliable, which is true, but if you use it properly, it works 98% of the time.

Shadow lord, that is actually very debatable in itself, some say: "The baby's most important, try to save both" while others say: "The mother's more important, abortion! abortion!" I have no opinion on the matter, since I honestly could never decide.

Don't want a baby? Don't have sex. Or at least use condoms, the pill, or whatever. Want a baby? Make sure the other person dosen't have STD's, and go to town! Got rapped? Have an abortion, or put the baby up for adoption. I prefer the ladder since a human life isn't ended. That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.
"Alright, everyone here says the condom is not 100% reliable, which is true, but if you use it properly, it works 98% of the time. "

Which means that for every hundred people who use condoms, two unwanted babies are statistically likely to be produced.

Which leads to an interesting question: if a couple has been responsible and used condoms correctly, but the woman ends up pregnant anyway, do you think that she should be allowed an abortion then?
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Blazin Torchic Posted: 18:32 Jun29 2007 Post ID: 1701537
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On 29-Jun-2007 super craig said:So your saying the if a woman has a baby that she really doesn't want and cause all sorts of stress, pain and may very probably ruin her life, then that is a happy occasion? I agree that if the mother really wants the baby and it will be born into a loving family then I will feel happy for her.
Well, as what a lot of people said, if the mother has a baby she doesn't want, then but it up for adoption so it can find another loving family that will take care of it.

The sad thing is that, the baby won't know if it was adopted or not. The family will either tell it when it's older and it will be really unhappy, or that they will never tell it and it will never find out.
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